Rick Casson

[Agriculture, April 15th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the United States congress is considering a bill that would cripple our country's agricultural sector. The bill would severely affect our exports at the border, all under the guise of safety from agri-terrorism. Our exporters would have to notify the border up to 12 hours in advance of shipments. This would activate any number of random inspections, preventing our products from getting to the American market.

This action is nothing short of protectionism. What is the minister of trade doing to stop this injustice and what is his game plan for when our agricultural exports grind to a halt?

[Pest Control Products Act, April 15th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday when we were leaving southern Alberta there was a horrific windstorm. The residents said that there was more dust and dirt in the air than there was in the thirties.

Farming practices have improved dramatically over the years. One of the things that has enabled farmers to keep soil erosion down to a minimum is the use of some of the products that we are talking about that the pesticide management review agency has to deal with.

We have forced our agricultural producers to produce more and more from an acre of land to be able to meet their financial needs and by doing so we have certainly changed the way some farming is done but almost all of what has changed is for the good. The use of products, such as the ones we have mentioned here, is really necessary if we are to have a competitive agricultural sector in Canada.

Harmonization between ourselves and our closest trading partners is another issue. A lot of our agricultural producers produce the same thing and things are different on both sides of the border. I believe the PMRA is one of the agencies that needs to be very active in making sure that products are harmonized, that legislation and regulation on both sides of the border are the same. I would like my colleague to expand on that somewhat.

[Species at Risk Act, March 21st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I commend the hon. member opposite for her presentation. It takes courage to stand in the House against one's own government. I am pleased to see her do that. She puts a lot of time and effort into the environment committee and takes it seriously.

I commend the hon. member for Churchill River for his comments about aboriginal involvement. The aboriginals have a theory that anything we do must be considered seven generations down the road. Perhaps if we did that we would all be in better shape today.

There are a lot of things going on in legislation before the House that are of concern to people in rural areas of the country who make a living from the land, the sea and Canada's resources. The bounty we have in Canada is unbelievable.

Let us look at the logging sector. A softwood lumber dispute has the whole sector in crisis. It does not look like it will be resolved. Today is the day it should be resolved but it does not look like it will happen. A pine beetle infestation due to the mild winter is devastating the forests of British Columbia and putting the province's forestry industry in trouble.

Let us look at farming. Last year was a disastrous year from coast to coast in the agriculture community due to low commodity prices and drought. In my area of southern Alberta the drought is severe and has not yet given any indication it will let go. The foreign subsidies that drive down commodity prices and distort production are killing our farm communities.

Let us look at the fishermen who make their living from the sea. Let us look at the mismanagement that has taken place there. Fish stocks are running out. Fishermen in Canada can no longer make a living. An emergency debate on the whole fishing industry in Canada has been applied for and agreed to for this evening.

Yesterday we debated Bill C-15B on cruelty to animals, a bill which has a lot of people concerned in the rural parts of the country.

The list goes on. The resource sector in Canada is concerned about the Kyoto protocol and some of the things it could do. We have the species at risk legislation. Today a bill was introduced to modernize the Pest Control Products Act. The bill would have ramifications throughout the resource and agriculture sectors.

If we add all of these things together, and they keep piling up, it is no wonder people in the agriculture, resource and fishing industries are terrified about the things that could happen to them. If passed as it is some of the legislation could be far reaching and devastating to many sectors.

What does the government do when developing a bill? The opposition is involved in the process. The bill is sent to committee. Expert witnesses from across the country are brought in to give their opinions. People from different sectors are brought in to talk about the bill and the problems associated with it. Hundreds of hours are involved in the process. The government brings hundreds of witnesses to Ottawa at great expense. It is not only at great expense to the government. It is at great expense to the witnesses who take time to come and bear witness under the guise that what they say will be listened to.

The committee listened. It made amendment after amendment. It went through Bill C-5 clause by clause. As the previous speaker indicated, committee members from all parties worked together to come up with a bill everyone could agree with.

The bill left committee. Before it came back to the House the government introduced amendments to take it back to where it was before the committee had a chance at it. The hundreds of witnesses, all the hours and all the expense of bringing in expert witnesses to present their cases was thrown out. That is an absolute shame. It derides the value of committees. It derides the value of the House when a government can do that.

As we have heard, many members on the government side of the House are concerned about what has happened. They work in good faith at the committee level as we all do. What we put forward should be considered. It was completely thrown out. The consultation process we asked for at committee stage was completely ignored. We asked for consultation with all sectors. It happened but the advice was ignored.

I would not be surprised if in years to come we invited industry representatives to present at committees and they refused. They use their own time to come and testify and the government does not listen to them anyway, so why should they?

The consultation we asked for at this stage did not happen. We have asked for consultation after Bill C-5 is implemented. That has been eroded as well. We have put forward an amendment to take care of the issue.

The government is proposing that if the minister became aware of an endangered species he or she would not have to make it public. We agreed to this to a certain extent because if people wanted to come and look it could harm the endangered species. However the person or company who owns the land should be notified if a species is there. Whether an area is on water or land the people in control of it should know the species is there so they can help make arrangements to protect it.

Under Bill C-5 affected landowners would not be notified if endangered species were on their land. Let us think about that. There are people trying to make a living as ranchers, farmers or fishermen who may not realize there is an endangered species in the area. Let us suppose it somehow gets reported to the Minister of the Environment. If these people did something to harm the species all the power, weight and heavy handed approach of Bill C-5 would come to bear on them. The government has taken out the aspect of mens rea which says the harm must be done willingly. That is gone. It absolutely terrifies people to think this could happen.

Let us look at the resource sector. People working in the bush surveying or doing whatever they do may not know an endangered species is nearby. They would be inadvertently affected because the whole weight of Bill C-5 could be thrown at them including jail time and huge fines. That is absolutely wrong.

Consultation did take place but it was not heeded. That is a huge problem. The issue of consultation and proper notification of affected landowners needs to be addressed before Bill C-5 goes forward.

We talked about the compensation issue at other stages of the bill. The whole idea of consultation would affect the ultimate compensation. If landowners do not realize there are endangered species on their property and the Minister of the Environment moves to affect their livelihoods they should be fully compensated for the income they lose.

We have talked a lot about the urban rural split. There is not really a split. This is an issue for which all of society is responsible. A few people in urban centres cannot dictate to the entire rural population how to operate their farms, ranches or resource industries. If people in urban centres want to do that then all people need to be responsible for compensation under Bill C-5.

This is something we want as citizens and as a nation. Everyone wants legislation that will adequately protect species at risk. However if we do not do it in the proper way the bill will not protect endangered species. It will do more to harm them.

Consultation, compensation and the whole idea of jurisdiction need to be addressed before Bill C-5 can be an effective piece of legislation. We have the support of all opposition parties regarding the amendments that need to be turned down and the ones that need to be approved. I urge all government members to listen to the people from the environment committee, the hon. member for Davenport and others on that side of the House when they say the amendments need to be made for the legislation to truly work.

[Privilege, March 21st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the official opposition wants to add its support to the member for Acadie--Bathurst on this issue that comes up time and again in the House. Now we have a report from the procedure and house affairs committee being quoted in the paper before it has been presented in the House.

It is far past time that something be done to stop this. It has involved many committees of the House. I know, Mr. Speaker, you take this very seriously and have expressed those concerns in the past. We in the official opposition encourage you to come up with some kind of a plan to stop this, and some kind of ramifications should this ever happen again.

This cannot constantly be going on. It is a breach of the confidentiality of the House and the essence of what the House of Commons stands for in Canada. I urge you, Mr. Speaker, to do the right thing.

[Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals and firearms) and the Firearms Act, March 20th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, Bill C-15B is part of the bill we had asked the justice minister for some time to separate. This has been done and we appreciate that because there were two very conflicting aspects in one bill. One aspect was cruelty to animals. The other dealt with the protection of our children from child pornography and luring on the Internet. We appreciated that aspect and supported that part, but we had some concerns with the cruelty to animals portion.

As my colleague has stated, we in no way condone cruelty to animals. There should be strong legislation in place to deal with anyone who abuses animals in any way. Our concern comes when we look at the agricultural community, people who raise and use animals in their businesses, such as fishermen and farmers.

We are concerned that if certain aspects of the bill are carried out to the degree we think some people will want to push them, it will put animal husbandry practices into question and it will put the people who raise the food we need in harm's way. The whole issue of protecting animals is a balancing act, as is every bill that comes to the House. We cannot go too far one way or we intrude in one area, but we have to go far enough to make sure that what we are trying to do gets done. This is no exception.

We have received in my office, as I am sure have all members in the House, countless letters of support for the bill from animal rights groups. They are doing their job. They are making sure we are aware that this legislation is in front of us, that we need to be aware that cruelty to animals is a problem and that there needs to be strong legislation to protect animals. On the other side we also are receiving letters from people who are concerned for the way of life they have created and the fact that the bill, if it is put into law the way it exists, could very well jeopardize the actions that they take.

People in the agricultural industry and the people who deal with animals are very cognizant of how to treat animals. They do it in the best way they can because it is to their advantage to do that. An animal that is treated properly is one that meets the requirements of the final process. There are all kinds of examples I could put forward about the industry which has governed itself. It has brought forward its own means of regulation to make sure that what is done and what the animals face is right.

The University of Lethbridge is in my riding. Like many universities across the country, it does research. That is another aspect where we have to make sure the animals are treated properly. We have seen a huge movement in the right direction as far as how animals that are kept for research are handled. On the other hand we have seen some people outside the research circles who really do need firm legislation and should be put out of business. That hopefully is where the legislation will lead. We hope it will not lead to the detriment of research and to our agricultural community in general.

We have brought forward suggestions from time to time on what we think needs to be done with some aspects of the bill regarding protection of animals. We hope the government will recognize that the concerns we are bringing forward are indeed legitimate and need to be addressed. If the government can in any way through changes to this legislation recognize all sides of the issue, then that is what should be done to make sure people can buy into this and buy into the fact that our animals need to be protected and treated fairly.

One of ways Bill C-15B differs from Bill C-17 that was before the last parliament is that a person would have to act willfully or recklessly in killing or harming an animal. Many organizations, businesses and individuals have a significant concern with respect to this aspect of the bill, namely that we would need to prove a person was wilful and reckless in his or her treatment. The bill could then come into effect and the law could be applied to the person.

The intent of Bill C-15B is fine. Cruelty to animals is something many of us do not understand. However we need to make sure the bill does not go too far. It must not hamper legal and rightful agricultural producers and others by wrongly accusing them of cruelty.

The idea of elevating the status of animals from property into something higher has many people concerned and rightly so. It would open up a whole different area of legal challenges. At what point would we stop? Do plants feel pain? We would be opening up a whole new area that could and would be challenged because there are people who would take it to the maximum degree.

The definition of animal under the bill would include non-human vertebrates and other animals that have the capacity to feel pain. The definition marks a significant departure. It would provide protection for an extremely wide range of living organisms which have never before been afforded this kind of legal protection. This piece of legislation would change the scope of what is currently in place.

The definition has practical difficulties. As worded it could cause enormous problems by extending the criminal law to invertebrates, cold blooded species such as fish, and an extremely wide variety of domestic and wild animals. It would affect the entire fishing industry by raising concerns about how hooks should be baited and how fish are handled after they are caught. It should be done in a humane way but it still needs to be done.

We have asked the government to delete or modify the definition but it has not. The issue could be a major concern as the bill proceeds.

The previous justice minister assured us in a speech that activities that are lawful and legitimate today would remain lawful after the bill received royal assent. The statement was intended to put at ease some of the concerns being raised at the time. She promised the House the changes would in no way negatively affect the many legitimate activities that involve animals such as hunting, farming or medical and scientific research.

We hope we can hold the new justice minister to the words of his predecessor. The words mean a lot. They have gone a long way to relieving the concerns of some people. We hope we can make sure they come true.

The previous justice minister's statement was self evident but it could be misleading. She said the provisions would not prevent legitimate activities from being carried out but that the law would proscribe only illegal activities. That is a bit of a play on words that negates what she meant to say in the first place. We are concerned the new provisions would narrow the scope of what constitutes legitimate activity.

These are just some of the issues. As Bill C-15B progresses through the House and we get an opportunity to rise and speak to it we will bring out other aspects.

We in our party support cruelty to animals legislation. However we want to make sure it addresses the issue without invading other parts of society.

[Canada Transportation Act, March 20th, 2002]

moved for leave to introduce Bill 436, an act to amend the Canada Transportation Act.

Mr. Speaker, I would like the thank the member for Athabasca for seconding this bill. The bill would amend the Canada Transportation Act to require adults travelling by air with minors under 16 years of age to produce custodial permission of the guardians before boarding the aircraft on domestic flights.

I have always had an interest in protecting children and when a concerned constituent alerted me to this security gap on domestic flights with children, I felt a private member's bill was in order. This Lethbridge mother was boarding a plane with her five year old daughter on the same day that a child went missing in Lethbridge. My constituent was not asked for identification for her daughter, despite the ongoing search for the missing child. When she insisted on showing security personnel her custody papers she was waived off.

That is when I found out that presently any adult can board a domestic flight in Canada with a child and no questions are asked regarding identification or custody. This is a serious loophole, especially in cases where a non-custodial parent is taking a child on a flight possibly clear across the country and away from his or her guardian. Also with increasing online contact between minors and adults, this gap in security could be taken advantage of.

I realize the bill will not stop child abduction, but if it can prevent one family from going through the anguish of a missing child, it is going to be worth it. I will be seeking the support of all members of the House when the bill comes up for a vote.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

[Supply, March 19th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the member who just spoke. She piqued my interest when she mentioned the drought in southern Alberta.

My riding is in southern Alberta and drought are a terrible problem facing it right now. Some of the people most adversely affected by the drought is a group of farmers down around Foremost, the county of Warner and over toward the Sweetgrass hills. They have been trying to get a water system brought in. They have been working on it for years. They have the provincial government and everyone else on side. Now the Canadian environmental assessment process has kicked into gear and threatens to hold the project up or even stop it from going ahead.

The member mentioned the drought. I remind her that we are very much aware of the drought situation in southern Alberta. One of the programs that has been put in place to help alleviate some of the ramifications of drought has been held up by her government.

She spent a lot of time talking about other issues that have affected the climate. No one is saying the climate is not changing. It is just to the degree we need to act to bring it around. The Canadian Chamber of Commerce has put out one estimate of $30 billion a year for implementation. Would she comment on what effects she feels it would have on the families in her riding?

[Criminal Code, March 14th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I was a firefighter in my other life for 17 years, albeit a volunteer firefighter. Firefighters are well trained and well equipped to handle every situation, but every fire has the potential to kill a firefighter, to kill a human being. Every time the alarm goes, no matter where it is or what kind of fire it is, fire has the potential to kill.

Certainly the comments of the parliamentary secretary are well taken. However as lawmakers and as an elected body we should, as the member just stated, do all we can to offer the needed support and protection to firefighters.

The recent incidents in the United States have highlighted the value of firefighters, how courageous they are, and the fact that they rush in when others rush out. We should do whatever we can do to help protect them. A lot of arson fires are just lit for greed, to collect insurance. Some are mischief. Some have some vindictiveness to them. No matter what causes a fire, fire has the potential to kill. We must keep that in mind when we are dealing with issues such as this one.

I add my support to the member. I thank him for bringing the matter forward. However, we discuss these issues a lot and nothing seems to be done.

Firefighters across Canada have a great lobby. They come to visit us every year with good reservations. We as an elected body should pay more attention to what they are asking for and start to deliver the protection they have earned.

[Trade, March 14th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the minister should be bragging until there is a softwood deal in place.

The government is also harming our cattle producers through its inaction. In a previous answer in the House, the minister of agriculture stated that the Canadian cattlemen had grave concerns about expanding the free flow of cattle between Canada and the U.S. He is grossly mistaken. Our cattle producers understand that if we fail to reduce Canadian border restrictions, our exports to the U.S. will be restricted.

The government is choosing inaction again and this will lead to another trade crisis. Why does the minister of agriculture continue to refuse to implement the terminal feedlot protocol?

[Trade, March 14th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the government has a horrible record when it comes to protecting Canada's trade interests. Just ask potato farmers, softwood lumber workers or cattle producers.

In the last year the Minister for International Trade refused to enforce Canada's tariff rate quotas allowing imports of 40,000 tonnes of beef over and above the agreed upon limit. These imports deny Canadian producers domestic markets and harm our trade relationship with the United States. Some in the U.S. are accusing Canada of allowing third party access through the back door and are calling for increased border restrictions.

Why does the minister of trade continue to grant harmful supplementary import permits and when will he stop?