Vic Toews

[Justice, May 17th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, last week during committee testimony the commissioner of the RCMP confirmed that the federal CPIC system was unable to perform the function of a national sex offender registry. Legislation and funding are required.

Will the solicitor general today commit to introduce legislation as a first step to create that effective national sex offender registry?

[Supply, May 17th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, as a politician and justice minister in Manitoba I saw the top of the problem. I did not get to see what was happening on the street and why things were breaking down, but I think that there has been a reluctance on the part of politicians to address the issue and a reluctance in society generally to deal with the problem.

I speak outside the context of the urban riding in Winnipeg that I represented where the reality of the drug problem was much more evident. I look now at the wonderful riding of Provencher that I represent and see a reluctance sometimes to deal head on with the issue because it does not appear to affect the riding. Drug and alcohol problems arise in some rural areas. People move into urban ridings where drugs are more accessible and anonymity protects them.

We simply push the problem off but it grows. The most telling issue is when we speak to parents who previously may not have had any concern about the drug problem and suddenly one day realize that their child is addicted, that their brother is addicted or that another member of their family is addicted. Then the reality and the horror of drug addiction come home.

We have seen this trend in the nation. Whether we brought on the problem ourselves or whether we are victims, we need to deal with it. The legal framework, the enforcement policies and the social policies do not seem to be curtailing the problem. The problem is being fuelled and we need to address it.

[Supply, May 17th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, one colleague from Regina who will be speaking to the motion had occasion to attend at the Toronto drug court. Generally speaking I know he received some favourable impressions and will be speaking about them.

I commend that member for taking the initiative to look beyond the box, the way we have traditionally approached the particular problem. I trust his comments and the experience he gained will not only assist us in our deliberations today but perhaps help guide the committee.

In the area of drug policy I recognize that there will be a lot of controversy. We have to be very hesitant to condemn those who speak about new innovative ways. We have to seriously analyze and evaluate these programs. We cannot just let them go on and pretend that by simply creating new programs we are making changes. There is a responsibility on us if as a House we fund some of these programs. We have a responsibility to evaluate but I will not condemn those who, having looked at the wreckage of the drug policy over the past three decades, now say we have to do something else.

This is not only an issue of street workers or social workers against police. I think we would find division in all these professions, but all these individuals are trying to help the very unfortunate people who are addicted to illicit drugs.

We need to encourage innovation that does not absolve us from the responsibility of evaluating what has gone on. Part of the problem is that we have not been evaluating what has gone on, but my colleague from Regina will be giving a little more detail in that respect.

[Supply, May 17th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question. I cannot speak to the details of the concern of the member for Langley—Abbotsford about the particular expenditure of funds. In the area of drug addiction and drug treatment it is very important to ensure that money is being used effectively. I do not know whether the concern was that the money was not being used effectively.

I have spoken to the member who introduced the motion. I know this matter concerns him very deeply. He has spent a lot of time on the street with police forces looking into the situations and conditions involving drug addicts and prostitutes. I do not think he brought the matter forward in a frivolous way.

If our policy is in some way inadequate, I as a member of the Canadian Alliance would like to hear from Canadians. We need to be responsive to them on this issue. If we need to spend money in certain areas in an effective way to break the cycle of drug addiction and the downward spiral of some of our core areas, I am prepared to re-examine policy.

I come to this issue with an open mind, in recognition that past drug policies of Conservative and Liberal governments have failed. I prefaced my remarks by saying that I am not pointing fingers. I want the contribution of all members to this very important debate, not just in the Senate but in the House of Commons.

[Supply, May 17th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate today on the Canadian Alliance supply motion brought forward by the member for Langley—Abbotsford.

I would like to begin my remarks by pointing out that there seems to be little doubt that Canada's approach to illicit drugs over the past few decades has been a dismal failure. I sincerely believe we need to start looking objectively and openly at new approaches to combat this very serious and complex problem.

When I say that there has been a failure in our drug policy, I do not point at any one particular agency or indeed any particular political party. I think we have all been a part of this failure. Our reluctance to look at genuine efforts to improve and change the system is a very important part of that failure.

At the onset of my comments I would also like to commend to members a reading of the special report that the Ottawa Citizen put out in September 2000. It was a report by Dan Gardner entitled “Losing the War on Drugs”. The first line indicates that for decades the United States led a global battle against illicit drugs. The results have been catastrophic. It is very important to read that report to get an understanding of some of the issues. One may or may not agree with the conclusions the writer reaches, but certainly I commend the report.

I also want to state that we have to recall that drug addicts are human beings. Whether they have brought this condition upon themselves or whether they are victims, they are human beings worthy of respect. They come from all types of homes and economic backgrounds and from all parts of the country.

My own riding of Provencher is a conservative, primarily rural riding. We do not have prostitutes in the streets of our communities. The hard drug problem and indeed even the soft drug problem are by and large silent and hidden, but I think there are ominous threats that will affect even relatively serene rural parts of the country.

I can point to the threat of methamphetamine, which is working its way through the United States and becoming more of a problem in Canada. As the minister of justice in Manitoba, I had occasion to work with American law enforcement agencies that have dealt with the horrendous problem of methamphetamine. In some of the seminars I attended and the discussions in which I took part, I was advised that in the state of California 90% of the child welfare apprehensions are related to methamphetamine abuse and many police officers and child care workers investigating these situations do not even realize that methamphetamine is at the root of some of these problems in terms of the immediate drug problem.

This very dangerous drug is finding its way not only across the United States but into Canada. For those of us who think that heroin, cocaine and other drug problems are largely an urban, large city problem, methamphetamine should be a wake-up call for police forces in rural areas, because its use appears to be growing primarily in rural ridings and among blue collar, Caucasian individuals.

Sometimes we tend to see a drug problem as belonging to another economic or racial group. There can certainly be very general categories when it comes to that, but I think it is important to remember that the problem of hard drugs ultimately affects everyone, no matter what racial background we are, no matter what economic background we are from and no matter where we live in our country.

Even though a riding like Provencher does not have prostitutes in the streets and the drug problems are primarily hidden, the reality is that even children and young adults from the riding of Provencher can become prostitutes and drug addicts. They drift to the streets of larger cities, where they die in anonymity.

The citizens of the large core areas of our cities suffer from the presence of drug addicts and prostitutes. Their streets are congested with johns, with organized crime and with other contributing factors to the problems raised by drugs. We see this more visibly in cities like Vancouver, Toronto and Winnipeg.

We should also commend those workers who are involved in this very difficult struggle on a day to day basis: the police officers, the social workers and the volunteer community organizations. They truly are angels in a very dark night.

With the debate today, I hope we can get beyond our apprehensions about this issue and have a productive and non-partisan dialogue. I appreciate that the Senate is also conducting hearings and studies in respect of this matter. However I think we as elected representatives need to participate in a very active way in the discussion. Because we are elected and because we are responsible to our constituents, we need to be involved in this process in a substantive way. This is not about duplication. This is about participation. We need to start thinking beyond our current policies and start asking ourselves the tougher questions about what is working and what is not.

If the motion is passed and implemented, parliament will have a new special committee examining the way in which the federal parliament can address the wide ranging problems that result from the non-medical use of drugs. The need for such a committee can hardly be in question.

The annual worldwide revenue generated by the illicit drug industry is approximately $400 billion American, which amounts to about an 8% share of total international trade.

Of course Canada does not exist in a vacuum, and In Canada alone each year the total economic costs attributed to illicit drug use is estimated at $1.4 billion, with billions more fuelling organized crime. According to the RCMP's 1999 report on drugs in Canada, the illicit drug trade is a principal source of revenue for most organized crime groups. This is a serious situation with no easy answers.

In light of this, I would like to bring to members' attention a letter that called into question traditional methods of dealing with illicit drug use.

Almost three years ago, the secretary general of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, received a letter signed by a variety of both academic and public figures, including a former UN secretary general, a former U.S. secretary of state, a former U.S. surgeon general, Nobel laureates, former presidents and cabinet ministers of Latin American countries and, indeed, in among that list was a number of prominent Canadians. What was so remarkable was not so much who signed the letter but the content of it. The letter stated:

We believe that the global war on drugs is now causing more harm than drug abuse itself.

This is an extraordinary statement. The main thrust of this statement of course was that the consequences of social deterioration from illicit drugs resulted not so much from drug use per se but from failed drug policies.

The concerns articulated in this letter focus on the idea that international trends reflecting primarily punitive drug control measures have empowered criminals, corrupted governments, eroded security and impeded efforts to prevent the spread of infectious diseases, such as HIV and hepatitis.

The letter also claims that significant resources are being depleted on ineffective and increasingly more expensive interdiction efforts, and that not enough is being expended on reducing drug related crime, disease and death.

I cannot imagine that anyone here today would dispute the kind of substantial and permanent harm that results from the use of illicit drugs by members of our society. However, this letter and many other briefs and documents currently in circulation indicate that there is significant and widespread disagreement as to how best to solve the issue in society.

To that effect, we are proposing today to create a committee to analyze these issues carefully and as objectively as possible.

The current strategy in Canada is almost identical to the strategy introduced by the Conservative government almost 15 years ago. Therefore, I do not think finger pointing is productive in this debate.

Both policies, the former and the current of the Conservative government, clearly articulate the overall long term goal of harm, reduction and rehabilitation, in addition to the principles of criminal prosecution and education measures intended to combat and prevent the abuse of such substances.

The reality is that these strategies appear to have failed almost completely.

The Addiction Research Foundation has been conducting the Ontario student drug use survey since 1977. I would like to mention some of its findings today in the House.

The percentage of students using cannabis in the last 12 months peaked at 31.7% in 1979 and then fell for the next six surveys to 11.7% in 1991. In 1993 it increased slightly to 12.7%. Since 1993 usage has climbed back up to 25% in 1997. The percentage of users is now highest in grade 11 at 42%. That is an astounding figure when one considers this is an illicit drug and that 42% of grade 11 students in Ontario utilize this drug.

Peak usage of glue and solvents was in 1979 and then there was a sharp decrease until 1991. Numbers rose again after reaching 1.8% for glue and 2.6% for solvents in 1997. The 1999 survey gives a sharply higher figure for glue at 3.6% and solvents at 7.1%. The issue of glue and solvents is a horrendous problem in the core area of the city of Winnipeg and some other rural prairie cities and does significant damage to children and adults. We have been powerless to do anything about the spread of this horrible addiction.

The peak for LSD was in 1981. The trough was in 1991 at 5.2%. However it has risen back up to about 7%. Overall, LSD usage has risen over the past decade.

Cocaine has been tracked since 1977 while crack cocaine, which is usually associated with urban ghettos primarily in the American cities, has been tracked since 1987. Cocaine peaked in 1979 at 5.1% and then fell only to rise again. Crack cocaine usage has increased sharply. Cocaine usage rose sharply in 1999 to 3.7%. The usage of crack increased in 1999 to 2.4%.

Thirty-six percent of students in 1999 said that in the last year someone had tried to sell them drugs. Thirty-two percent said that they had observed someone selling drugs.

I think the statistics are clear, whether we look to Ontario, Manitoba, British Columbia, the maritimes or Quebec, illicit drug use, particularly by adolescents, our future here in Canada, has been increasing steadily over the past decade.

Additionally, the Vancouver drug scene has seen a huge increase in the purity of heroin and the introduction of cheap cocaine and crack to the city in the early 1990s. I always have to remark about the conjunction of the words pure and heroin. It almost has a very chilling effect on one when something that devilish and that horrible can be considered pure, but of course I understand it in the chemical sense.

The number of illicit drug overdose deaths have averaged 147 per year over the past seven years. Many of those who die from drug overdoses are not even the heavy drug users. Casual users do not know the strength of street heroin and mixing alcohol with heroin dramatically increases the risk for overdose.

Experimentation with marijuana in Vancouver has risen by 50% in the last five years to 58% of the 17 year olds interviewed.

Other areas of concern are HIV and hepatitis C infection, increased drug misuse among youth, inadequate treatment services and the relationship between crime and substance abuse.

If we look at the economic costs, we need to look far beyond the simple cost of enforcing drug laws themselves. Illicit and illegal drug use is a significant contributing factor in a wide range of crimes, such as property offences, violent crimes, robbery and prostitution. That does not even take into account the organized crime rings that thrive on the commerce and the money generated by this trade.

As elected representatives, we need to participate in an active, substantive way. Burying our heads in the sand and saying that this will not affect our particular riding because it is a quiet rural riding and we have other things to concern ourselves with will simply delay the problem. One day the problem will even be in those ridings that we consider safe and secure from the problems of drugs.

I commend my colleague for bringing the motion forward and I commend the motion to others in the House.

[Supply, May 17th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am encouraged by the very productive and non-partisan approach that members in the House are taking. I would like to commend the former speaker for his comments. I noted he brought forward again the Le Dain report, which many of us recall, and the recommendation in that very significant but overlooked report.

The issue of gradually reducing the penalties on illicit drug use is of course a contentious matter, but would the member have any initial views on the non-criminalization and the elimination of penalties for the use of these drugs? I ask the question based on comments that I think many of us have received from constituents. Certainly these are comments that I have received from constituents when I served in the Manitoba provincial legislature where I represented an urban riding.

The comments go along very generally like this. If all presently illegal drugs were legalized and the distribution properly controlled, there would be no incentive to rob and otherwise injure law-abiding citizens. Then we could divert resources from law enforcement to more intensive social services to get to the root of the problem. Has the member any further comments to add on that?

[Justice, May 15th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the House leader said that this legislation was not a priority for his government and that he wanted to see the legislation put over until the fall.

Will the Minister of Justice correct the House leader and tell him that Canadians care?

[Justice, May 15th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the ability of sexual predators to lure children, including through the Internet, is a concern to Canadian parents and members of our party.

Will the justice minister commit today to ensuring that specific and separate legislation is brought forward dealing with the use of the Internet to protect children against these predators?

[Justice, May 9th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, no wonder there is no reform in parliament if 30 years is a short time.

In Ontario police estimate there are as many as 900 federal fugitives at large. The federal government contributes $500,000 to track them down. By comparison, the Ontario provincial government gives $4 million.

This is a threat to public safety. Why will the federal government not provide the necessary resources to apprehend dangerous federal fugitives at large?

[Justice, May 9th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, this week we learned that local police in Belleville, Ontario, caught a convicted bank robber who escaped from a federal prison almost 30 years ago.

Currently the Liberal government does virtually nothing to capture violent, hardened criminals who escape from federal institutions. Will the minister commit today to creating a special unit within the RCMP to apprehend the hundreds of federal fugitives at large in Canada today?