Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to speak on social security reform in the early stages of this debate.
The document prepared by the Minister of Human Resources Development will lead to future policy and legislation. I believe this issue is one of the most important decisions this government will make in its term in office. I must emphasize that social security reform cannot be looked upon in isolation of other programs and other activities like economic development and tax reform. What will happen in those areas directly relates to the issues of social policy reform.
As an example of what should not happen I would like to turn for a moment to look at what happened in the United States during President Reagan's term. It is dealt with extensively in a book by John Kenneth Galbraith, A Journey Through Economic Time . I encourage members to get that book and read it. There are a lot good comments in it in terms of what not to do in people's interests in the economy. I quote from Mr. Galbraith in his book:
For aid to the rich-the large reductions in marginal tax rates in 1981-the Reagan cover was a declared need to stimulate more energy, initiative and investment. Effort by the already well endowed was being inhibited because of the high marginal rates.
He goes on to explain how great tax advantages were given to the rich by the Reagan administration. On the other hand, for those less well off financially he says:
Similar and perhaps more successful was the position as regards help to the poor. Here income, indeed assistance in almost any form, was held to be damaging to character, initiative and effort and thus to the well-being of the impoverished. As the rich needed the incentive of more money, so the poor needed the incentive of less.
This was according to President Reagan's principles of economic development. That is something we want to avoid and which I am sure this government wants to avoid in our discussions leading up to social security reform and to economic reform in this country.
This issue will be of fundamental importance to us in Prince Edward Island and our ability on Prince Edward Island and in my riding of Malpeque to produce and prosper. I cannot emphasize enough the need for people to become informed, to understand the options and to become involved in offering alternatives. I encourage people to get the discussion document put out by the minister's office and to look at the facts, not some of the criticism or some of the assumptions they may see in the media.
This proposal on social security reform will affect my province of Prince Edward Island, either positively or negatively, probably more than any other province given the structure of our economy. It is my hope that everyone thinks through the implications on an individual basis, on a labour basis, on an employer basis, how it affects students and how it affects the economy as a whole.
With the foregoing in mind, I held a public meeting in my riding to try and lay out those facts in as straightforward a way as I could. I will give the results of that meeting in a moment. I did that because I felt that communities and interest groups must prepare themselves for the standing committee that is to follow and hear their points of view in a concrete, constructive way.
As I said at the beginning of that meeting, I want to be very clear. Changes are going to be made. For us to argue to maintain the status quo or the system exactly as it is is not even in the cards. It is not a winnable argument. We have to understand that. In understanding that we have to be a part of the process; we have to become involved as communities and as people within communities in a very constructive way.
I want to relate some of the points I raised at the public meeting. Some of them are critical of our position. We accept that criticism because out of constructive criticism will come good debate and at the end of the day will come better solutions.
I encouraged public participation in the meeting. It was very high and quite vocal. My constituents realize that changes are needed. However, they feel that at the moment the changes are directed solely at one group of people, the less wealthy in society. Let me expand on what my constituents told me at that meeting.
First, the government continues to say that too much is spent on social programs and cuts are needed, yet no one wants to admit that we in Canada do not have a fair taxation system. It is the middle class that pays 58 per cent of all taxes, while businesses and corporations pay less than 15 per cent.
Second, they said there exist massive tax loopholes that allow corporations and wealthy individuals of Canada to escape paying their fair share. At least that is the perception. These loopholes are subsidies and tax expenditures, thus costing the government a loss of revenues.
Third, they indicated that the government is looking at social reform in a one dimensional manner. Before programs are cut the government must take action in reforming taxation. The deficit cannot be put solely on the backs of the middle class and the less wealthy. From my constituents' point of view that relates to the overall thrust of social security reform.
I do not accept that criticism in its entirety. We are intending as a government to look at tax reform and other areas as well and we must as we go down this road.
There was a considerable amount of discussion on education. A lot of concern was raised by students in terms of when they are finished university if the new approach is taken what kind of debt loads will they face. On that point we have a lot more work to do in the area of education.
On UI, people at the meeting said they believe the changes to UI will have the greatest negative impact. The impact will be greater in Prince Edward Island and the maritimes as a whole than in other areas of the country because of our seasonal industries.
The two leading industries in P.E.I. are agriculture and tourism. These two industries rely heavily on seasonal workers. Without the availability of seasonal help the employers within these industries will be lost in terms of operating their businesses. Seasonal workers play a tremendous part in allowing whole industries to be profitable. As my colleague from Hillsborough said a minute ago, we are pleased the Minister of Human Resources Development has now appointed a special committee to look at seasonal industries in light of the impending changes relative to UI.
If these changes are taken without careful consideration all that is simply going to occur is fewer people on UI and more on welfare, once again transferring the deficit on to the backs of poorer provinces. We cannot allow that to happen under these changes.
In the social security reform paper job training and retraining are talked about extensively. My constituents feel that skills retraining is a necessity however, it is only worthwhile if jobs exist in the sector they are being trained in. For example, there is little use training an out of place worker skilled in electronics if there exists a surplus of electricians. Before job training occurs we need to know in what areas there are going to be jobs. I want to re-emphasize the need to work in economic areas to try and ensure that the jobs will be there once people are trained.
Some of my constituents believe that the reform paper is really a plan to cut the deficit, a plan that puts our deficit on the backs of those who can least afford it. We cannot lose sight that Canada is a country which is built on the ideals of having a social program for all its citizens, for all to have a level playing field to succeed. I certainly countered that argument because the position of the discussion paper and other measures we are taking is to recognize that changes need to be made and they must be done in a very constructive way to see that ordinary people's needs are met.
I had an interesting experience the weekend before last when I was the only MP who attended a meeting of the Council of Canadians. At that meeting all MPs who sit in this House, particularly those on my side of the House, were under attack because of the social security reform. I stood at that meeting and asked those people how many of them had talked to us as MPs and very few raised their hands. That is what this debate is all about. It does no good for those groups out there that are attacking our discussion paper to talk to themselves. They have to get out to these hearings and put forward alternate proposals in a very constructive way. In that way we will listen.
In closing I want to quote from the Prime Minister's speech in Fredericton in which he indicated where we are really going on this issue: "We need a national debate on our options. We are looking for good ideas from the provinces, the private sector, the trade union movement and individual Canadians. When new legislation is introduced next year it will reflect what we have learned during that consultation process".
What is important is this consultation, this debate, so that at the end of the day we come up with a better social safety net than we currently have.
