Public Safety committee  Very much so. Absolutely, there are competing interests, but as I said, there's a realization that the collateral activities are probably more costly than whatever economic activity is generated within the community.

Public Safety committee  As I mentioned earlier, it's price driven. The market is there. Some of the organizations might put a focus on trying to please the customers, but the reality is that the discrepancy in prices is driving the market.

Public Safety committee  If you look at the chart contained in the book, yes, it clearly.... If you look at the taxation levels over the years, you can actually follow the curve. Taxation is clearly one issue, but I would suggest it's not the only issue.

Public Safety committee  It's actually quite realistic. Again, going back to my earlier comment about the impact this phenomenon is having on the native communities, there's a willingness by these communities to collaborate and participate in some of our enforcement efforts. I can't speak specifically to the day-to-day type of activities that we have with aboriginal police services, but I can confirm that we're actually very proud of the cooperation that we have and the relationship that we have established with many of the aboriginal law enforcement services.

Public Safety committee  I absolutely agree with my colleague.

Public Safety committee  Madam, it's an excellent observation. The market is price driven, there's no doubt. This is what's attracting people to acquire this kind of tobacco. There's absolutely no doubt there. This is why we believe that enforcement alone is not the answer. There has to be a very significant education piece so that people understand that there's a collateral cost to funding this type of enterprise in terms of the organized criminality that is actually behind it.

Public Safety committee  This is a question that is much broader than I would be able to answer, because there are health and societal aspects to it, but you're absolutely right.

Public Safety committee  If I may build on what my colleague just said, the partnerships are also not strictly with CBSA. They are also with the policing jurisdictions and the police forces that operate within the aboriginal communities.

Public Safety committee  That is a very good question, but it's also a very difficult question to answer. If you look at the agencies represented here at the table, each has, I would say, with the exception of CBSA and the RCMP, a different mandate and different responsibilities. I hate doing this, but if you look at the strategy, there is a recognition that it's not strictly enforcement agencies that have to be coordinated.

Public Safety committee  Is this open to anybody?

Public Safety committee  Being from a border area, you realize that the relationship between CBSA and the RCMP has been long-standing; it actually precedes the creation of CBSA by a long time. That relationship is probably better now than it's ever been. As my colleague here mentioned, we are both involved in coordination of the tobacco diversion workshops that are taking place.

Public Safety committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Bouchard. Currently, to deal with the problem, several tools make up the arsenal that is at the disposal of agencies responsible for law enforcement That being said, I would not go as far as to say that we have all of the tools necessary to crack down on criminal organizations' ability to adjust to the initiatives put in place by governments and police agencies.

Public Safety committee  Let's just say that I'm not appearing before this committee today to state that we have control over the situation and that there is no problem. Yet, I would not say that we have lost control of this particular situation. There is some distance between the two extremes. The problem is on the rise, which been confirmed by the number of tobacco seizures made in recent years.

Public Safety committee  That's correct. They received cross-designation to be able to operate on both sides of the border.

Public Safety committee  Yes.