International Trade committee  No, I don't think we could. I don't think we want to go there. But I can tell you that it's the only issue, in building allies in the United States in the business community and among business associations, that can say that these buy America provisions should not be in legislation.

International Trade committee  That's right.

International Trade committee  It would depend on what the range of procurement projects actually is, but if you look at the municipal waste water and clean water industry, you're looking at $1.9 billion coming from the United States into Canada. You're looking at about $600 million of exports going from Canada into the United States.

International Trade committee  We have three municipalities in Ontario that have signed on to the Halton Hills resolution. That resolution is going to the Federation of Canadian Municipalities at its conference on June 6 and is driven by local municipalities. So we'll see June on 6 if there's a resolution coming out of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.

International Trade committee  Well, it certainly is threatening jobs in Canada. We have identified around 250 of our members who are affected just by the Water Quality Investment Act alone here, who are selling into municipal and state water technology and clean water and waste water sectors. Many of these companies had no idea that they would be affected until the contractor came to them and told them they had to sign an affidavit saying that their product is produced in Canada.

International Trade committee  I think the buy American issue is a good one to discuss.

International Trade committee  It cannot be handled within the institutional context of NAFTA, although I would argue that there are grounds for doing so, because this is federal legislation imposing federal conditions on how federal money is being spent. You could argue that this should be tied to the federal procurement arrangements under NAFTA.

International Trade committee  I think that's right, but as you'll find yourself among your own constituents, the people you pay attention to most are people within your district, your constituency. Of course, it's the same thing with U.S. legislators. What will make a difference is if U.S. business groups or U.S. labour groups come to their congressman or their senator and say, “This is bad policy because it's killing jobs in your district.”

International Trade committee  It's certainly an issue of concern here. You're right that it's not clear that Canadian exporters are safeguarded here under the NAFTA at state and local levels. Of course, it took longer for Canada to negotiate an internal procurement agreement than it did for us to sign the NAFTA.

International Trade committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and bonjour, mesdames et messieurs. Thank you for the invitation to come to speak to you on a number of issues with respect to Canada-U.S. relations. We certainly have a number of concerns right now, extending from the growing complexity of costs and time delays at the border, Canada's lack of enforcement of rules that would prevent counterfeit product going into the United States from Canada, the imposition of export controls, as well as a number of opportunities, I think, as previous speakers have said, for Canadian and American businesses to work together.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  I would say that one of the big problems with small companies is that they're small and that we're expecting them to be experts in trade, experts in regulatory affairs, experts in HR, experts in product, experts in everything, and they just don't have the resources to do that. My experience is that, especially in the manufacturing and technology companies, you have innovators or owners of a company who really know their product and really know their technology, but they're not necessarily the experts on selling that technology or that product around the world.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  I'd be pleased to do that. We often see the oil sands as an Alberta resource or a western Canadian resource, and we forget about the commercial opportunities. We also tend to forget that 60% of the taxes raised as a result of oil sands development are paid to other jurisdictions across the country, other than the Alberta government.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  That's right. That was really the reason we developed it. This was a project we began with Industry Canada and with the Alberta government and the Quebec and Ontario governments. They're all still very active partners in this. Companies in Alberta were experiencing many problems and time delays because they couldn't get the people to install or work on product.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  Deodorant that has already been inspected in the United States is inspected again when it comes into Canada. Why? I would think that's a good example. American and Canadian underarms aren't all that different. Why do we need a double inspection system? I'm not saying we should harmonize all regulations, but we should look at those areas of regulation where it makes sense to adopt the same standard.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  Yes, you are right. One of the benefits of the Quebec tax credit is that it is refundable, and I think you see the benefit of that system by the amount of R and D that is done in Quebec. Maybe as an economist I can say this. When I deal with economists at the Department of Finance there's this idea that sooner or later, in the long run, everything evens out anyway, so it doesn't make any difference if you pay the money now or pay the money at some point in the future.