National Defence committee  The trouble with getting numbers is that the department has only just now started a tracking system for grievances. If you were to ask how many grievances were submitted last year in the Canadian Forces, I don't think you would get a clear answer. We track what we have at the board.

National Defence committee  The medical side is brought in. There's a director of medical policy who provides recommendations to the personnel people, but in my view, they're very limited recommendations. The files I alluded to earlier are ones that have to do, more or less, with whether the person knew right from wrong in committing the particular misbehaviour.

National Defence committee  We've just done an informal resolution of one of our cases, in which we had the department review the case. It agreed with us that the appropriate thing to do was to give the person an immediate annuity, which is what happened. So we have success in some cases.

National Defence committee  No, we don't.

National Defence committee  That was me.

National Defence committee  Certainly speaking from my perspective at the grievance board, I know the Canadian Forces are working very, very hard on alternate dispute resolution, finding ways of sorting issues out before they reach our board or even the grievance system. I saw a grievance a few years ago for $150.

National Defence committee  Yes, sir, I see that in grievances. I was looking at a grievance this afternoon, in fact, where the member was saying that he hadn't come forward when he should have because he believed acknowledging he had an issue would be a “career stopper”. So you do see that, yes.

National Defence committee  I'm not sure. One would hope that what the department has embarked upon--the kinds of things that Mr. Stogran described, and the education program that I know is ongoing--would ameliorate this, but I see the same type of thing when I go on visits to bases. From time to time, commanding officers tell me, getting people to come forward is an issue.

National Defence committee  The reasons for release and retirement are in the statute. The reason for release is determined by the personnel administration people. They have a choice in some cases. A medical release is possible, and so is a misconduct type of release. I was alluding to the rigidity on this point, which, from the cases I have seen, I am a little concerned about.

National Defence committee  I'll ask Ms. Maynard to respond to that.

National Defence committee  We haven't discussed it, and I know it's being discussed at National Defence. He needs the authority to bring resolution to grievances that he sees. He doesn't need broad authority. I don't know what's been talked about, but certainly with the kinds of things we see, we find it frustrating that the chief has to go off to a third party to get an endorsement to pay out sometimes very small amounts of money.

National Defence committee  That's a completely legitimate point of view. Senior military officers would probably tell you that the grievance business is integral to esprit de corps, to the functioning of the military, and it belongs with the chain of command.

National Defence committee  What has to be done, I guess, is for the department and the minister to agree that this is a good thing. We have had discussions with the vice-chief over the last number of months, and those discussions will probably resume shortly, I'm hoping.

National Defence committee  Yes, the magic words are “deputy head” in financial authority from the Treasury Board, and the chief is not considered a deputy head. I am told the Commissioner of the RCMP is considered a deputy head and does have financial power. But the chief has no financial power in terms of ex gratia payments and that kind of thing.

National Defence committee  I'm not getting the translation.