Natural Resources committee  I'll go really quickly. Clearly, we don't want more intervention. We think we're well set up. I'll come back to Mr. Ervin's comment that people are not freezing in the dark. Cars are not pulled over at the side of the highway for lack of supply. It's localized. There might be some sites and some retail sites.

Natural Resources committee  It's private. Again, we have spent billions of dollars at Edmonton and Sarnia to allow us to manage oil-sands-based crudes, to provide upgrading of those crudes at those sites, and we've spent enormous sums of money to create upgrading capacity at Fort McMurray to produce those kinds of crudes.

Natural Resources committee  Each of our businesses stands on its own, but there is some strategic integration that makes sense. But we were making those investments in Petro-Canada at Edmonton before we had the full-blown integration we have today with the Suncor oil sands business. Again, it's a tough business.

Natural Resources committee  Shell, in the west, at Scotford, has significant upgrading facilities at that site. I'm not going to comment on all the others, but part of the east's issue would be access to the crudes.

Natural Resources committee  I'm sure.

Natural Resources committee  I hear this capacity thing all the time. It isn't necessarily that the plants are sitting idle. The capacity reflects the amount of time the plant has been down. A capacity of 95% would be a lovely place for a refinery to operate all of the time. Most refineries don't get there over the long term.

Natural Resources committee  I'm not sure. I don't think we do in the west.

Natural Resources committee  No.

Natural Resources committee  Again, I'm not going to touch on the oil production side of the technology. It's not at all my area of expertise. For us on the refining side, the technology has been in adapting plants to new types of crude, different types of crude. There's enormous investment in that. Of course, we are a capital-intensive business and a technology-driven business, so that is very much at the heart of what we do.

Natural Resources committee  Yes, it's the same thing. I mentioned air emissions as being an example of the discussions that are under way today. Please, give us the outcome that is desired and allow us to help figure out how to best arrive at that solution. Harmonization across regions is the other piece, and not just on the potential....

Natural Resources committee  When you talk about environmental performance, there are a couple of places where we do meet what I would think are probably some of the best standards in the world. One is on emissions from the sites. You know, NOx, SOx, and volatile organic compounds. They're highly regulated.

Natural Resources committee  As I think I said in my remarks, we invest hundreds of millions. You can read it in the public record. It's in our annual reports. In our four refineries, every year we invest roughly $600 million. That's really just to keep the plants well maintained, reliable, and safe. It's also to ensure that we meet regulatory requirements, that we continue to move forward on some of our environmental commitments with regard to energy efficiency on the sites, and to maintain standards at those sites.

Natural Resources committee  Actually, I want to pick up on that point. I think we touched on it earlier. It is more difficult to transport refined products across long distances. The amount of handling, product specification, and care and feeding as you go down the supply chain is very critical. It is much easier to move crude oils to where they are needed as opposed to moving refined product.

Natural Resources committee  We're adding one big one, called Voyageur. It's in the middle of engineering right now. As I said earlier, I think, we expect to have that up and running by 2017. That adds 200,000 barrels a day of upgrading capacity. With the increase in bitumen production we're investing in as well in the west, that will keep us in balance for some time.

Natural Resources committee  Again, I'm sorry. I'm not absolutely sure. It's thousands.