Human Resources committee  I would just very quickly add to that, that it's not just the Canada Labour Code. In 2005, when the Public Service Modernization Act amended the PSLRA and the PESRA, there was extensive consultation at that point as well.

Human Resources committee  Yes, I would agree with that. I think there's an important role for unions in assisting older workers to remain in the workplace, to contribute to the retention of workers with more seniority. Beyond that, unions can bargain things like phased retirement, flexible leave opportunities, accommodating and age-friendly workplaces, and flexible work arrangements, and they can work with employers to manage the introduction of new technologies and forms of work organization, to develop the training and identify the training needs among older workers to make sure they can adapt to the changing workplace.

Human Resources committee  I was trying to convey just that. I didn't mean to imply that we thought otherwise. We have also looked at the evaluation of the program, which shows generally high levels of satisfaction or success with the targeted initiative. We believe that could be expanded to other older workers.

Human Resources committee  I can certainly provide those to you. I don't have them with me, but they are significant. It's characteristic of those higher-age groups that you'll see that significant fall-off in earnings, in part because high-seniority workers, long-tenured workers have built up a certain scale of compensation in their previous employment.

Human Resources committee  I would say the dramatic increase in labour force participation and employment rates among older workers is an indication of a number of things. There's greater educational attainment, especially among women—I don't think it's an accident that most of our panel is women—as well as greater opportunities.

Human Resources committee  It may be a combination of things. It may be what's happening in the housing market and with mortgage debt, but also with higher levels of consumer debt or faster rates of accumulation of consumer debt, partly in response to the recent crisis we've been through economically and financially.

Human Resources committee  That's a good question. Some of our affiliates do—I mean, they do support the principle of workers leaving paid work and entering retirement at age 65 in order to free up employment opportunities for younger workers. In terms of the general principle, there's validity to this. When one looks at the collapse in the employment rate among young workers after 2009 and the continued rise in the employment rate among older workers, older workers are finding re-employment in retail service occupations, often in non-standard forms of employment that younger workers might be expected to compete for.

Human Resources committee  I think a number of things can be done to address the circumstances of workers in those industries. For starters, there is the issue of the consideration of severance under EI. To facilitate better re-employment, that is, a better labour market adjustment process, as opposed to simply the quickest outcome, which may not be optimal in terms of re-employment prospects for workers who match their capabilities and their potential contribution, there can be measures taken to ensure that severance payments are not expended or exhausted prior to EI benefits being available.

Human Resources committee  I do think that support for the defined benefit plans, which do afford workers the security to be able to retire, is welcome. We obviously advocate an expansion of the Canada Pension Plan to provide more decent and secure retirement incomes for workers who need to or want to exit the labour force.

Human Resources committee  Thank you. On behalf of the Canadian Labour Congress, I want to thank the committee for undertaking the study and for allowing the congress to present its views. The congress is the national voice of 3.3 million workers in Canada. It's comprised of dozens of national and international unions, as well as provincial and territorial federations of labour.

Human Resources committee  —was that workers in the NOCs C and D skill categories—

Human Resources committee  No, I didn't—

Human Resources committee  No, if I may, our point—

Human Resources committee  —should continue to come to Canada, but they should have the same access to permanent status that higher-skilled workers have. Why do we have a two-tiered standard?

Human Resources committee  In our view, it returns to the question asked by the other honourable member, namely, how are we addressing well-anticipated demographic and labour market challenges that are long term in nature? Do we continue to address them the way we have, through a temporary migrant worker program that entails all of the very restrictive provisions on what migrant workers can do, and which leads to all of the vulnerability and opportunities for exploitation that we've had evidence of, or do we address those challenges and those needs through a permanent economic immigration stream?