Bill C-11 committee  You're saying that. We're not saying that.

Bill C-11 committee  Sir, I'm not quite sure I understand your question.

Bill C-11 committee  Don't get us wrong there. We believe that there should be some due process. What we don't believe is that it's practical to expect it. There are literally millions of infringements every day on the Internet—millions. Are we going to have to start millions of lawsuits because of the notice-and-notice provision?

Bill C-11 committee  We aren't saying that at all. Respectfully, we're not saying that.

Bill C-11 committee  I think the main thing to understand is that the music industry is a combination of different revenue streams—it doesn't rely on only one. There is SOCAN, there is AVLA, and there are all these different revenue streams that come in. So we rely on the accumulation of revenues to make a living.

Bill C-11 committee  —retail stores, Sam the Record Man going bankrupt.

Bill C-11 committee  It happens. You can't deny that it's happened. It's happened, it's reality, and this is what the cause was.

Bill C-11 committee  Well, we believe that yes, there may be some other considerations—

Bill C-11 committee  —but the primary consideration is the fact that people are taking music for free and not paying for it, and that has closed down....You have to look at the results: distributors going bankrupt—

Bill C-11 committee  We're just wanting to get paid once: the first time. That's the biggest problem here. We're not getting paid—at all. So yes, I appreciate your question about getting paid twice, but the fact is that when mobile devices have 90% non-paid-for material.... Even Steve Jobs said that.

Bill C-11 committee  I agree with that 100%. I think the biggest problem is small businesses are just not going to be able to afford to sue every time there's an infringement. It's not a business model for us. We can't afford to spend $5,000 in legal fees to go after $5,000 in damages. It doesn't make any sense.

Bill C-11 committee  That's okay.

Bill C-11 committee  Absolutely, we feel it every day. The entire industry has globally gone from $30 billion a year to $14 billion and smaller in terms of sound recording. That has all to do with free downloading. The fact is that there are some great services out there, like iTunes. For me, personally as an artist, I still sell on iTunes, but it's probably one-tenth of what the sales were when CDs were still viable.

Bill C-11 committee  Yes. I have one paragraph. Is that all right?

Bill C-11 committee  Yes. While CIMA's formal written presentation also deals with a number of other suggested changes to the bill, we wish to make sure that the Government of Canada understands the need of the independent music sector. We're struggling at a time of uncertainty in the law and need clear, enforceable copyright laws in order to continue to provide Canada and the world the best quality of music, songs, and musicians.