Agriculture committee  I am perhaps not the right person to answer that question, because I don't represent the industry and don't have the broader perspective. I do believe, as I mentioned, that if Parliament were to even consider looking again at the IILA, for example.... There are a lot of small breweries and specialty spirit makers who would like to be able to ship their products across provincial borders as well.

Agriculture committee  My understanding is that the association that represents Canadian liquor retailers has some people engaged there who are former members of the Alberta government and have stepped up and said they don't want the competition.

Agriculture committee  Unfortunately, Bill C-311 contains the following phrase: “in quantities and as permitted by the laws of the latter province”. So it affects the receiving provinces. Unfortunately, we were not able to convince Parliament to take that out and insist that the province allow reasonable quantities.

Agriculture committee  Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for the invitation to be here today. The Alliance of Canadian Wine Consumers, better known as FreeMyGrapes, is a grassroots volunteer organization. Our goal is to make it legal to buy and ship Canadian wine across provincial borders for personal use.

Finance committee  Yes. The addition of the word “reasonable” would not remove their ability to set the quantity, so that concern doesn't exist. Also, on “reasonable”, Mr. Hicken could respond to this—

Finance committee  Because it will force them to actually question their current amount and hopefully increase the amount that exists. If they will have to defend.... The potential exists for them to have to defend what “reasonable” is.

Finance committee  Mr. Hicken can talk to the point that there is precedent for the word “reasonable” in law. For example, Europe has that in its own wine law. This is something that exists and can be dealt with.

Finance committee  Very briefly, this bill will allow small wineries to be more economically viable. That is the foundation for growth. It will encourage more businesses and encourage more people to get into the winery business, to grow grapes or to produce wines. In order to get the big guys that can sell internationally, you need to have a lot of little guys, so this bill is a step in that direction.

Finance committee  If I can just clarify a point, wine is actually produced in every province. It might not be grape wine, but I've had communications with a winery in Newfoundland that was producing a wine from a local fruit there. There is a potential for growth with saskatoon berry wine and every other type of wine, including grape wine, in the country.

Finance committee  I think it's a wonderful idea that has no practical ability to be successful.

Finance committee  The national treatment is a fundamental principle of international trade agreements, and we're wise to make sure we adhere to the principle. The way the bill is worded right now, I believe it does meet that principle. And to address some of your concerns, using information that's available on the LCBO website, if you were to order a case of wine from Australia through the LCBO, they would charge $300 to ship that case of wine to Canada.

Finance committee  The potential exists for Canadian wine consumption to increase. Paul and Mark might have better data on that than I do. But we expect that the pie will grow bigger.

Finance committee  Very briefly, the questions that have been raised by Ms. Zimmerman are absolutely legitimate questions that we would expect small businesses to ask. However, we do have U.S. experience to draw on. I'll read a quote to you: Many U.S. states have opened their borders, and in no case have they seen a decline in sales because of that.

Finance committee  As I stated, we have evidence from the actions that have been taken to date by the liquor boards that they're unwilling to make the needed changes. So in the way it's worded now a province could literally set the limit at zero or at a thimbleful, and that would meet the requirements of Bill C-311.

Finance committee  Thank you for the question. This is something where consumers literally don't understand why the law exists. The comments I get.... Even in an interview that I did today, neither one of the folks who were on CTV News even knew that the law existed. We have studies that show that over 75% of Canadians believe the law should change and almost an equal number admit that they have, in fact, transported wine or had wine delivered to them.