Fisheries committee  Yes. Well, yes, as we get the—

Fisheries committee  To me, actually, these cases where Asian carp have been stopped at the Ontario border have been great. It has signalled that we have a problem. There are people carrying live Asian carp around, and it's great that they got intercepted. On the other hand, if you want to say the glass is half empty, that means there are Asian carp coming to the Canadian border.

Fisheries committee  Well, yes. Stopping them at the border doesn't help. It's illegal to bring them across state borders, but state borders are a lot more porous than the international border. So if we keep them out of Toronto and they're still getting to Detroit, it's not keeping them out of the Great Lakes.

Fisheries committee  No.

Fisheries committee  I don't know. Have you had Francine MacDonald from the MNR here speaking about Invading Species Watch?

Fisheries committee  I think that's largely a volunteer program.

Fisheries committee  In my view, right now it's not possible. We don't have the silver bullet. I think currently the control program costs are approaching $30 million a year. If somebody could find the silver bullet, that would be great. It would save a lot of money. That shows you the value, if the research could be....

Fisheries committee  Well, actually, as species go, the lamprey is vulnerable compared to many. It spawns in tributaries, and it takes many years between when it spawns in the tributaries and when it comes back down to the lake. All the control measures are focused on the larval stages in the tributaries.

Fisheries committee  —and that's what's happening. But to actually eliminate the last one, with current technology it does not seem to be feasible. If it were a matter of spending twice as much in one year or something like that, it would be done, but it's.... I don't think it's feasible.

Fisheries committee  It would mostly be biocides, toxic chemicals. The use of those is highly controlled. We've been looking at—we're advocating, anyway--and have taken a stab at all the likely species that haven't got to the Great Lakes yet but could, and what we'd want to use to murder them if and when they were discovered in a local area, and whether those chemicals were approved for use.

Fisheries committee  It's probably most valuable in keeping invasive species that have gotten into the Great Lakes from getting farther inland. As you know, that's the second level of the problem, which is also important. This is mostly looking for things that we already know are here, so it's not as relevant to early detection of invading species in the Great Lakes.

Fisheries committee  —the legislation to get that won't happen in any short period of time. Often the things that are registered for use—for example, for killing lampreys—are only registered for that very specific use, not for killing another species of fish that isn't here yet. We need to remove those impediments so that the tools are ready: not just that we have a gun, but that we have a warehouse full of them, ready to move.

Fisheries committee  And it's approved for use.

Fisheries committee  Yes.

Fisheries committee  All I can say is that they are different. There has been some attempt to make them less different under the North American Free Trade Agreement, but they still are different. As far as I can see now, you would have to solve the problem on both sides of the border independently.