Industry committee  I think we should.

Industry committee  I would argue it's both better laws and better enforcement that we need. Right now, the way the request for assistance is drafted in this bill, there is a positive obligation on the rights holder to institute legal action against the importer. I can tell you, in my own personal experience, that many times it's fake and anonymous information that's provided on the importer documentation.

Industry committee  I can't tell you that. I do not know, because I didn't draft it. I would have included it.

Industry committee  Thank you for that question. Here is my issue and here is the reality, another working example. We received a telephone call from the police that there was a seizure of a shipment that contained 39 different brands. With the value of each brand in each unit—there might have been 12 or 13 items per brand—it would have been less expensive for our firm's clients to purchase the counterfeit items from the importer than to deal with the seizure of that counterfeit in any other way, whether it were assisting the police or through some form of request for assistance.

Industry committee  Absolutely, right now with the administrative regimes in the U.S. government and in the EU, there is a small cost to that rights holder in order to participate, and not a blank cheque.

Industry committee  I can tell you that there have been confirmed cases of moneys that have been used with respect to the sale of counterfeit merchandise being sent back to Hezbollah and other organized crime. I can also tell you that I've been personally involved in seizures of counterfeit merchandise where, instead of being allowed to go into the premises, I have been told I had to wait outside because of the guns and other weapons that have been involved, which weren't anticipated by the police at the store that was selling counterfeit but for obvious reasons ended up being found.

Industry committee  I can't right now because I wasn't anticipating that question, but I'm happy to provide you that information.

Industry committee  Of any personal use...?

Industry committee  I'm not aware of any current charges with respect to those issues. What I can tell you is that we're not doing enough testing of the harmful effects of counterfeiting. If there's a house fire and an electrical cord caused that fire, for example, the fire department and the officials don't test to see that it was due to a counterfeit electrical cord.

Industry committee  Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for you right now. I don't want to speculate on anything.

Industry committee  No. It's my understanding that right now if the CBSA observes counterfeits, they open the shipment and will then contact the RCMP or other local law enforcement in order to detain the goods pursuant to their legislation. Often, given the resources you have, the other RCMP or local police might not be able to participate, or might be able to assist the rights holder in seizing that counterfeit merchandise.

Industry committee  It certainly would on other law enforcement, absolutely, and we're hoping that if an administrative regime is included, it would then take even more resources because they don't have to worry about bonded storage warehousing of the items and the court actions, which end up costing taxpayers significant resources.

Industry committee  I can't....

Industry committee  Yes, absolutely, they do.

Industry committee  I'm satisfied. The review that I did was with respect to the administrative regime. I believe that's the section that's missing from our bill and would help alleviate the demand on CBSA and the rights holder, making it possible to destroy the goods on an expedited basis.