Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, and I think that's an example of the very narrow way we define family. We look at it in one direction and not the others, and that's exactly why we have a two-tier system where parents and grandparents are seen as a different class of family from spouses and dependent children.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The backlog was created because the resources were not put in there to process the applications.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I agree that we should look at the different skills and different professions and trades. It is harder to find someone who can fix elevators than to find a lawyer in Toronto right now—I'm just telling you the truth. Many trades are understaffed right now. I think it is important to bring in people with different skill sets, different education levels.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  You're getting only immigrants from the high brackets under this class of sponsorship.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, I agree with that. I think different governments are trying to do that, and we don't always get it right. Sometimes the way we talk about immigration policy can be clumsy or can perpetuate some of the stereotypes out there, but I think that if there is a will, there is a way.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Just to give myself as an example, we were given an invitation to attend a consultation on a Tuesday after a long weekend. I received that invitation on Friday afternoon. It hasn't been a very helpful process, but we have been trying to speak to the minister and the parliamentary secretary about this issue.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  They should be treated like other immigrants. If there are no quotas on spousal sponsorship, then there should not be a quota on parents and grandparents. Again, as I mentioned earlier, it is not just about lifting the quota; you have to look at the requirements as well. If the requirements remain unchanged, even if you increase the quota three times, you will still get the same number because people are simply not applying because of the very restrictive requirements of MNI—at LICO plus 30%—plus the 20-year sponsorship period, plus the three-year income tax requirement.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I understand, and we can have that policy debate. But to be very honest, even before the quota was put in, there was an informal quota because there were never enough resources to process the sponsorship of parents and grandparents, which created the backlog of 150,000 and led to the moratorium in November 2011.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Sure. I totally agree with you that if people are good enough to work, they should be good enough to stay. I'm not the only one who says that. Even the Canadian Federation of Independent Business supports that. I think they also recognize that many of the jobs filled by temporary foreign workers right now, as my colleague has mentioned, are in fact permanent jobs that should be filled, but they are not being filled right now.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think right now there are a number of issues with the sponsorship of parents and grandparents. Even though the quota has been set, my understanding is, after talking to the minister himself, that oftentimes we're unable to even meet the quota. I think one of the reasons is that many people will simply not qualify, or they will not apply, thinking that they do not qualify.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  May I answer?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think it's also important to think about how we can change the narrative. The assumption behind that sentiment is that family class immigrants are of no economic benefit to Canada. However, once again, I'm citing CIC's own study from 2015, which looked at both spousal sponsorship applications and sponsorship of parents and grandparents.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  We don't usually take a position on the actual percentage or number. However, I know that organizations such as the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants have been pushing for the 1%. That seems to be sort of a consensus among many groups. I guess from our perspective, it's more about the mix as opposed to the number.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  First of all, we think the refugee policy is distinct and separate from the immigration policy. I think—

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I'm saying that the rationale for refugee policy is different from that for immigration policy. We accept refugees not because.... Refugees do have economic contributions to Canada, but we do not accept them on that basis; we accept refugees because we have an international obligation to do so.