Finance committee  As I said, I see nothing wrong with oversight. I believe it's beneficial to everybody, as long as we don't create a bureaucracy. Let's make sure it's a process that's done effectively and efficiently. I think there's good cause for oversight. We're in a new area, based on criminal activity or terrorist activity that none of us ever wanted to confront, so I think the timing is appropriate.

Finance committee  Not working in that world right now and not having that high-level intelligence available, I can only say that the drug trade is alive and well. Afghan heroin is flowing over here. Somebody is putting it out, and in a lot of our communities, as you well know, organized crime groups like the Hells Angels exert a lot of control.

Finance committee  Right. I can give you one example. There was an individual I spent close to $25,000 on, allowing him to go to foreign countries to train, to build up expertise so he'd be qualified in a court of law. The minute he did the first case, in which he was qualified as an expert, he was transferred to be a detachment commander.

Finance committee  When we started the integrated proceeds of crime initiative, we started out contracting accountants. We brought those individuals with the right expertise to the table to help us out. In these cases, because of their complexity—and I still get involved in white-collar crime investigations today—I rely on legal counsel.

Finance committee  We have to understand that when FINTRAC started they were a fledgling organization with very limited knowledge. The calibre of their disclosures has gone up. However, when we weigh their success—and I have said this over and over again—I believe we built a Rolls-Royce. We need an engine to run it.

Finance committee  That is correct. We are dealing with a complex world today, with cybercrime and terrorism. It can't be captured in the way we've done it. I really have to agree with Jeffrey Robinson, who said we are using an 18th century philosophy to fight 21st century crimes. I don't say this lightly.

Finance committee  No, we did not.

Finance committee  Well, I'd suggest that you've brought a valid point to the table. The family entity, as you well know, in most cases has broken down, and they're looking for that family entity, and that becomes a gang. In this case, I agree with our colleague from the U.K., it is within that sphere.

Finance committee  I'd like to say I would hope there's a balance. Number one, when you're looking at these, protection has to be front and foremost initially. I agree with our colleague from the U.K. that we need a multi-faceted strategy. That's what we need to sit down and come up with.

Finance committee  That's right.

Finance committee  No, it was probably misunderstood. They may not move into terrorism, but you have to look at the terrorist organizations today for exactly the reasons that were iterated by our colleague from the U.K. They've had to move into the criminal milieu to get funding. They are capitalizing on what we traditionally looked at as the organized crime milieu.

Finance committee  I don't think we should take it out of context. I mentioned Western Union. It's a victim and is certainly considered to be the largest MSB, money services business, in the world.

Finance committee  The white-label ATMs we can definitely control. The flow of money, because our world has opened up and is borderless today, has to continue and is going to continue. I agree with my colleague Mr. McGuire on the need to capture data. I can give you a very short analogy. The head of Western Union and the CAMLO talked about using metadata.

Finance committee  I stand to be corrected, but I think the RCMP is around 70%, because they're municipal, provincial, city.

Finance committee  I believe the model for the integrated proceeds of crime, which was originally permitted by Parliament and which brought all of the current federal resources to bear in a collective environment along with our outside policing partners, was an extremely effective model. It's one that I believe would still lend a lot of credibility to what we're doing today.