Health committee  This may sound a little too glib, but in 1962 in Saskatchewan when there was a province-wide doctors strike, the same argument was being advanced that some form of publicly funded system whereby the plan was delivered through doctors—basically that was the mechanism—wouldn't work, and of course it did.

Health committee  I would go that way, subject to what further evidence needs to be looked at. My report, as I say, is 14 years old, and at one stage the report actually talked about a possible deductible in the first $1,100.... I forget what the number was. Greg, was it $1,100 or something?

Health committee  Yes, for the catastrophic. We decided to move this in a very tiny step. We'd do catastrophic care and then we would have a bit of a deductible: the first $1,400 or $1,500 for that would be your responsibility, and then over that, if it were really catastrophic care required, you'd be covered.

Health committee  Congratulations to the committee. You're right on the number one job or task.

Health committee  Good luck to you.

Health committee  I'm not answering your question quite fully, and I apologize for that.

Health committee  I'm using here some of the evidence of Dr. Marc-André Gagnon from Carleton University. I think the chart he has, which coincides with what we've been doing from time to time, indicates that the countries that seem to be the ones we would model are the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand, perhaps down the pike with regard to the arguments that have been set out in this particular brief.

Health committee  She certainly is. She can run; I can't.

Health committee  I take the easy questions; he takes the hard ones.

Health committee  I thought you were referring to Marchildon.

Health committee  First, I'd like to think that they didn't do it in the 14 years since my report because a pharmacare plan has not been initiated. Secondly, I will make the point that it will not be easily implemented. There's no easy way in a federal system such as ours, in my experience. I do think that it is a divided jurisdiction between the federal and provincial governments.

Health committee  Yes, we did.

Health committee  First of all, the study is 14 years old, I'm sad to say. There has really been an explosion of pharmaceuticals since that time. I think it's safe to say—I'm not a medical person—that some of those work and some don't work, and so one has to be a little bit careful. In the years since that time, I would argue that the numbers—which are set out in one of the documents I presented to you as a model of what to follow—indicate in effect that 13 or 14 countries have followed a universal pharmacare program, which means that it has to have worked.

Health committee  Well, I haven't seen very much. There have been some individual plans. Even before my report, in Saskatchewan there was the beginning of a provincial pharmacare plan, but that changed as political circumstances changed. I think the evidence is quite clear in looking at some of the material filed before your committee.

Health committee  Clearly, I would favour holding discussions as a beginning, because I do believe that with rational men and women getting together for discussion and consideration of the facts—and these are not always absolute answers—compromise can result and allow the best plan to come forward.