Human Resources committee  If I can add, I would encourage you to have flexibility here, because there are many cases of people reporting effectively to their supervisor. I don't think they should be prevented from doing that, but I think you should recognize that there are limitations if that's their only avenue.

Human Resources committee  Yes, I absolutely do, and if you've got the opportunity in this bill to include that, I would strongly encourage you to do so.

Human Resources committee  In referencing the employee authority, are you referring to the employer?

Human Resources committee  Let me try to answer it this way. I think the bill as it's currently drafted is inadequate to address employees at all-sized organizations. When you look at, for example, the requirement that people report to their supervisor, that may have a disproportionately more unfair effect on smaller organizations where there are fewer people, but I think the effect is the same, frankly, in any organization because if my only avenue of recourse is to report to my supervisor, and they're either the harasser or someone I don't feel comfortable reporting to, I have no other avenue, whether I'm in a big company or a small company.

Human Resources committee  I would add that I think the other level of expertise they need is in how to conduct a workplace investigation. This is not a regulated industry. There's no college you can go to, to get a certificate or a degree. The danger, of course, is that they really botch a process and do an enormous disservice to the people who come forward.

Human Resources committee  Can I add one thing to that?

Human Resources committee  It would be lovely to get the consensus of the parties, but in an organization that deals with multiple complaints, it can become unwieldy. It's an advantage if you've got a union and you can agree to a roster, so that you've got people available, but people also expect processes to move quickly, and sometimes getting the consent of the parties to use an investigator who's actually available can be very very difficult.

Human Resources committee  There were two points I referenced in my remarks with regard to what I think small employers are particularly vulnerable to. First is the requirement that employees report to their supervisor. In a small organization, that just doesn't leave sufficient flexibility. Then there's the confidentiality piece.

Human Resources committee  I think the challenge for small employers is that often they are start-ups, so they're focused very much on their business. They don't always have the time and attention to focus on the kind of culture that avoids problems like the ones that are covered by Bill C-65. They don't always have the resources to do the kind of training we're talking about.

Human Resources committee  Yes.

Human Resources committee  Again I just didn't catch the end of that.

Human Resources committee  It is a relatively small percentage of complaints that are unsubstantiated, in the sense that people come forward with complaints about behaviour that we find did not occur. That's a relatively small percentage. The distinction I will draw is that more frequently we make findings that the behaviour occurred, but it was not harassment, and that's a policy definition issue.

Human Resources committee  They might learn something.

Human Resources committee  We don't represent anyone. Our role is a neutral one, and we make that very clear to the people we interact with. It's part of our standard introduction. We're not representing anyone's interests. We are primarily neutral fact finders where we collect information from the parties when there are parties, witnesses, or generically other employees in cases that are occurrences or incidents.

Human Resources committee  I'm looking at my colleagues. I think I have an idea in my head based on what I think. I would probably say it's in the 50% range, and that is highly inexact. Would you agree with that?