Natural Resources committee  Thank you.

Natural Resources committee  There is no current funding that I am aware of specifically for energy poverty.

Natural Resources committee  I hope so, but I don't want to....

Natural Resources committee  Maybe there are some, but none that we're aware of. For us, a federal strategy targeting energy poverty would help.

Natural Resources committee  That's a really good question. We have been working in this industry for 30 years, but we have been doing the work on the ground. I know our friends over at Efficiency Canada and Corey Diamond, who was here a couple of weeks ago, are looking into this. We have been talking to them about getting a sense of which programs are working well and which could use some help.

Natural Resources committee  I definitely think so. In our experience, we have gained success because we have led people on a journey. It's not an event. I think once people start seeing the increase in comfort, the increase in safety, and the decrease in their bills, that's when you start to really get momentum.

Natural Resources committee  Yes. Can I choose neither? I agree with you. I don't think the tax incentive is the right tool. The issue I see with rebates is that, again, the upfront cost is needed from the homeowner. It's that same story we've been talking about. They simply don't have the ability to put in that upfront cost and the issue, and what we need to solve for them, is their housing.

Natural Resources committee  One of the things we try to do with technology from a homeowner basis to maximize the savings potential is to educate. If you're going to put in a new device, whether it's a heat pump or a smart thermostat, if that person doesn't know how to use it, you're not going to maximize the savings.

Natural Resources committee  Can you explain a bit more what you mean?

Natural Resources committee  Over our six years we've had a combination. We do a combination of energy modelling to determine what we believe is going to be the energy savings, and then we actually look at users' consumption data from utilities. Those are the savings that we report. Some of the funders, some of the cities, and some of the utilities have done their own independent studies.

Natural Resources committee  It's pretty good. We don't have the data with us today, but I think one of the big things we focus on is what the homeowners say. The homeowners are saying their bills are going down. They're more comfortable. They understand what energy efficiency is. They know that putting in a light bulb saves them energy.

Natural Resources committee  I think Karim has a comment, but I just wanted to say I think that's good for a community with multiple buildings and multiple homes and a band council. But when you're an individual, and you're working three jobs, and you're taking your kids to school, you don't have the time and you don't have the finances for those bigger upfront costs.

Natural Resources committee  We hire them with a living wage. In B.C. I think that's $21 an hour. In Alberta it's a little lower, but we continue with the $21 an hour. It's an hourly wage.

Natural Resources committee  No, not at all.

Natural Resources committee  It's not a problem.