Fisheries committee  Those are good questions, but the reality is that the government has had a mechanism for transfer for years, and has had principles around that for years. Back in the 1990s, those principles were reiterated very clearly that they enter into a buying-up of existing access. It would also include a transfer to first nations in order to make sure that the Canadian government, the Canadian people, was paying for reconciliation, and not individual businesses or enterprises, which would be unfair to those enterprises.

Fisheries committee  There's another major conflict as well, and it has to do with the federal government's fiduciary responsibility to first nations. It's been very clear, in court cases here in British Columbia, that because of that conflict, when discussing the management and the allocation of resources within the fishing industry, the stakeholder interests need to be at the table.

Fisheries committee  There is none.

Fisheries committee  Yes. I spent 15 years as the head of the salmon enhancement society here in Ucluelet. At the same time, in southeast Alaska, a similar situation happened back in 1979. In Juneau, Alaska, they have a hatchery that produces, I think 50 million pinks, 10 million chum and five million coho and chinook.

Fisheries committee  I'm not an expert on illegal fisheries. I don't think that illegal fishing at the Canadian level within the 200-mile limit is necessarily a problem here in Canada. Foreign ownership is definitely an issue that has been raised repeatedly and has been raised in the FOPO discussions.

Fisheries committee  If you read a book called The Outlaw Ocean, you will see that there's been an increase overall on water fishing, but it's not evident here specifically within the 200-mile limit. Where there are examples of it impacting our salmon as they travel well offshore, that may possibly be a problem.

Fisheries committee  I was talking about the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, specifically Pacific region.

Fisheries committee  That's a very important point. The Government of Canada has done all kinds of reorganization. It did it with INAC recently. There are all kinds of ways to do it. Significant study has been done on proper governance models that can be utilized by government in order to put proper consultative and governance frameworks together.

Fisheries committee  That's going to be hard in a couple of minutes, but I'll try. Basically, the board process, the idea of working together at a community level between first nations and the community fishermen and non-indigenous communities, is the heart of the idea of developing that board, in order to make sure that there's a proper management structure that would provide socio-economic benefits to the community.

Fisheries committee  The thesis was done through UBC. It's finished. She now has a doctor of philosophy from UBC. That thesis is available. It specifically relates to the management issues that arise around creating situations with individual transferable quota fisheries that have led to fishermen having to rent fishing quotas at very high lease rates.

Fisheries committee  Kathy or Brad, you go ahead. I've already said what I've said about this situation.

Fisheries committee  I haven't fished salmon for 15 years now after doing it for 40 years. I fish other fish. Some of them are in good shape, and in some ways they are managed fairly effectively. The salmon issue, from the fishermen I know who do fish salmon—and this has been the case, as Kathy's mentioned—are targeting out here 80% or more American-bound fish.

Fisheries committee  We created the board back in 2001, after 10 years of work with the communities, the Nuu-chah-nulth, and the federal and provincial governments. The federal government spent a couple of years putting a large budget together to negotiate that board into existence. As I said in my opening comments, there was never any support from the central agency for this board.

Fisheries committee  The goal was to be a part of the management strategy for the marine resources for the Nuu-chah-nulth region, which is most of the west coast of Vancouver Island, to work in partnership with other regions and with the central government to properly manage both the biological side of the resources in the region as well as the socio-economic objectives that were really critical.

Fisheries committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and committee members, for giving me a chance to talk to you. I'm a non-indigenous, third-generation fisherman living in the small coastal village of Ucluelet on the west coast of Vancouver Island. I spent 40 years trolling for salmon in B.C. out of this community.