Finance committee  I look to my colleague Kaylie to see if she wants to say a bit about this.

Finance committee  We didn't address this in our remarks, but I know the issue you're talking about. We're happy to follow up with the committee if an answer is required. We have no problem doing that.

Finance committee  Great. Thank you for the question. I'll also invite my colleague Kaylie to weigh in on this. We have no issues with the labour conditions that were attached to some of the investment tax credits. It's important to also reflect on the parameters of those labour conditions, which were very much modelled on what was done in the U.S. through their Inflation Reduction Act legislation but were very much focused on the construction and building of some of these big capital assets, like factories and different plants.

Finance committee  Thanks very much. Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee. My name is Angelo DiCaro. I'm the director of research for Unifor, which is Canada's largest labour union in the private sector, representing 320,000 workers across the country. I'll be sharing my time with my colleague Kaylie Tiessen, an economist who leads the union's budgetary analysis work.

International Trade committee  Thanks very much, Lana. On the specific points on the CUSMA, we've seen over the last three years as the EV space has developed that we have a better handle on some of the most critical component parts that will go into EVs—parts like electric motors and electric drive units—which become a very obvious and natural transitioning technology to existing powertrain facilities.

International Trade committee  Yes, I have very serious concerns, and this goes beyond any conversations about competitiveness on cost. This is about a country and an industrial model that is built on baked-in subsidies, not just unfair labour but forced labour, things that we wouldn't tolerate in Canada and are certainly against the spirit of what we're trying to build in the CUSMA as a high-road trade agreement.

International Trade committee  As someone who has to manage the spreadsheets when we're costing collective agreements as we go into bargaining with the automakers, I can tell you that two factors usually come into play when we're looking at the cost variables. One is the dollar and the other is Canadian health care.

International Trade committee  This is a great place for discussion. We would say that, no, the current incentives are not adequate for trying to incubate and grow this market, which are going to be vital to both jobs and our economic prospects. We've called for a $10,000 purchase incentive from the federal government.

International Trade committee  Very quickly, I think we know there is going to be a lot of capacity needed in this space for battery manufacturing. As others have mentioned, landing these factories in Canada is going to be vital, not just for the growth of the supply chain domestically but also since, as you have to understand, there is going to be quite a bit of disruption because of this transition for workers who are currently building parts that are not going to be needed in these new electric vehicles.

International Trade committee  That's right. I guess one of the key pieces is how we strategically put all of those components together. I think one of the dangers we face is that we're attempting to build a sector and see it grow significantly but absent is a coordinated strategy in which various policies will intersect with one another, from climate policies and purchasing incentives all the way to industrial strategies in manufacturing development.

International Trade committee  This may be the most lucrative space there is right now in developing a clean economy. Canada has proven that we have the capacity to grow the sector. I think we have to not kid ourselves into thinking that every auto-making nation around the world has the same ambitions we do. The difference is that maybe a lot of those auto-making nations aren't equipped with all of the ingredients they need to build out full-blown supply chains within their domestic markets.

International Trade committee  If I understand the question, you're asking what factors make us less competitive. I would say—and maybe I will sound like an auto sector salesperson here—there's no reason why Canada can't be among the most competitive jurisdictions in the world. When you think about all the ingredients we have—from natural resources to the existing capacity and networks, all the way up to maybe the most important asset, which is a skilled labour force—I think, as we said in our recent auto sector policy, which was released in August, Canada should be aspiring to be a powerhouse in this space.

International Trade committee  I think that any time there's a way to build in transparency around how these programs operate, it's always of benefit. Maybe the point I'll disagree on is how seemingly empirical the U.S. model is under the IRA. There are certain quantifiable subsidies that have been presented.

International Trade committee  Was this question for me?

International Trade committee  Right now, we're still mining through where this IRA takes us. We need the full details of how this bill is going to work and how it's going to be implemented. We still have a lot of questions, as I'm sure other panellists do. When we have the full suite of that, we'll form an ideal policy response.