Health committee  I might just add two dimensions to this discussion as well. Canada, the United States, and other countries, such as Russia, are federalist countries. How do you deal with a pandemic in a country that divides its powers and its influence among various jurisdictions? Often federalism has strengths, because you can have local innovation and local experimentation, but you also need, as you said, consistent national guidance and a consistent national response, because if there is a fire in one place, it will spread to other places, so you do need that federal leadership.

Health committee  The WHO is in a more difficult position in terms of risk communication and health advice than the national government would be, because its advice goes to every country. I think Jeremy was right that the mask issue occurred because of evolving science, and some of it.... We just didn't realize that it was such a risk mitigation measure, particularly because there was asymptomatic transmission going on.

Health committee  Jeremy, do you want me to answer that or would you prefer to?

Health committee  Okay, thanks. I don't think any of us said quite what you suggested we said. I don't think that experts come down from on high and almighty and know all the answers. This is a process that we need to learn together and understand. You and all the members of this committee, and all Canadians, really have the same objectives.

Health committee  Yes. I said at the beginning I worked with the World Health Organization for a long time. I think a good friend of the World Health Organization is a good friend. A good friend will tell you when you're wrong, but they won't try to blame you, tear you down, defund you, withdraw their membership or get you in the middle of geopolitical struggles between superpowers.

Health committee  I think that's really important. For me, trust in science and public health experts begins with really good health communication. I've been in close touch with the WHO about health communication, because we all know about their advice on masks, asymptomatic transmission and things like that.

Health committee  Obviously you can see that both Jeremy and I have deep concerns about our own government and how it has handled the situation and how it has muzzled science. There's no question about that, but on the other hand, we also need to express the strengths of the United States. It's not in the White House; it's in civil society, in whistle-blowers, in the CDC, in the NIH, in our community action.

Health committee  I think we may hear more imminently from the President of the United States on this issue, and I'm not at liberty to disclose exactly.... I now have over 1,000 signatures from leading public health people in the United States, urging Congress to block the withdrawal. I do believe it would be the most ruinous decision of a president in modern history to simply turn our back on the World Health Organization.

Health committee  Thank you very much for that question. I'll send you a JAMA article that I co-authored on that very subject. The idea is that we need to plan for it now. I would like to see that planning under the auspices of the World Health Organization, whereby all countries pledge to not have a price on intellectual property competition and to equitably share the vaccine, but it could be under the auspices of the G7, the G20 or the United Nations.

Health committee  I thought that was a terrific question as well. Thank you very much for asking it in such a gracious way, I might say. The global health security index—Jeremy and I are both involved in that—had the United States top of the list in terms of health capacities, and the International Health Regulations require all countries to develop core health system capacities to be able to rapidly detect and respond to novel outbreaks.

Health committee  I thought you'd never ask. Thank you. There are a number of them. I'll start with sustainable funding. The World Health Organization now has a funding level that's less than one large U.S. hospital, one-quarter of the amount of the U.S. CDC, and it has a global mandate. Even worse, of the paltry funds that it has, it only has control of about 25% to 30% of its budget.

Health committee  Jeremy, do you want to go first, or shall I? I'm happy either way.

Health committee  Jeremy, did you want to answer that or shall I?

Health committee  I agree with Jeremy on everything he said in terms of the current COVID response and the need for unity. I think it's absolutely essential. Marcus asked about the post-COVID world. That really interests me a lot, because one day this is going to be over. What will the world look like, and what will Canada's role be in that world?

Health committee  No, I don't agree with that. I worked very closely with Taiwan, South Korea and others on their response, and the reason they did well—