Agriculture committee  It's not an easy question to answer, in that livestock farmers are competing with other livestock farmers around the world. They are in global markets, and competitiveness is front and centre just as much as it is for a grain operation. For both of those industries, this is a critical issue.

Agriculture committee  Not that is widely available or economically viable right now.

Agriculture committee  I can't speak to that specific technology or that specific example, but in considering that story, I think one of the important elements is that many of those investments were probably made a number of years ago, setting the stage for that plan. Fuel prices right now for farmers on diesel, or whatever it may be, are the number one concern we hear about from our farmers every day.

Agriculture committee  Generally speaking, it's the adoption of precision agricultural technologies and massive progress in the number of times tractors and combines are passing over fields. It's the reduction in fuel use we've seen by precision agricultural technology. The no-till technology to reduce the time equipment is spending in the field has been the most significant.

Agriculture committee  I think the intention behind it is to demonstrate the benefits of a provision like this. The provinces ideally would be looking at what's working and what's helping to incent the adoption of technologies. As Dave has just alluded to, there's very much a recognition that farmers having the working capital they need to invest in these kinds of technologies is really going to be critical for our ability to reduce our environmental footprint.

Agriculture committee  All I would add is that when we look at the intention behind this bill, I view Bill C-234 as a natural sort of tidying up of that parent statute and what was intended in the first place.

Agriculture committee  I would just add that with regard to some of the technologies that were cited in the last panel, this is not an either/or proposition. The intent of this bill, and the value of it, is that it provides working capital to the farmers to invest in the available technologies in their operations and employ them, recognizing, as Dave said, that the fundamental technology there is not a viable, scalable alternative.

Agriculture committee  I would say that where those technologies are available and where there are improvements that can be made, working capital is what's needed. What we hear from farmers is that they need the capital to invest in those available technologies.

Agriculture committee  I will just say that when we look at the impact of carbon surcharges on farmers, we see it's very lumpy. It's very variable from one farm to another, and it's not a reflection of the sustainability of their practices so much as it is a reflection of what they're producing, where they're producing it and the extreme weather events they are facing.

Agriculture committee  I would say that the biggest thing is flexibility in ensuring that funding is available to emerging technologies and innovations as they come online and is not overly prescriptive in order to ensure that you're really enabling farmers to be decision-makers. They are fundamentally very focused on farm efficiency and improving their environmental footprint.

Agriculture committee  We'll just say that one of the things we look at right now when we look at our sector is the level of farm debt, for example, that farmers are taking on. We are now exceeding historic record levels with over $110 billion in farm debt. As well, what has happened with interest rates is that the debt servicing costs on farmers are more than doubling, tripling, over the last 12 months alone.

Agriculture committee  I would just characterize.... In the previous panel, someone alluded to a third wave of efficiency gains in our sector. I think we're actually through a lot of what we have seen with biotechnology and are actually in a very data-driven time in our industry. That data is telling farmers very clearly, in no uncertain terms, without a carbon price or with, to reduce fuel use.

Agriculture committee  Thank you. Exemptions are, simply put, the best option. Unfortunately, the carbon price rebates for farmers contained in Bill C-8 do not adequately respond to the breadth and variety of carbon surcharges applied to farms. Bill C-234 would provide a complete exemption for essential activities that lack viable alternatives and leave the money in farmers' pockets to make timely investments in their operations.

Agriculture committee  I could speak a bit to it, and I'll let Dave speak to the time lag, because that's something he's a little more familiar with. In terms of the types of investments we're looking at, it really ranges, depending on the type of farm we're speaking about. There are significant investments that are possible in terms of a barn perspective.

Agriculture committee  Dave and I were speaking about this earlier this morning. I will defer to him on some of the specifics around the grains and oilseed sector, given that he works a little more acutely there. I think what we hear is that it's not a technology that works for everyone across the country.