Information & Ethics committee  It's been a real privilege. Thank you so much.

Information & Ethics committee  I would agree with that. I think the only onus I would put.... Legislation has, in the past, at least at the provincial level, compelled disclosure of matters that are a threat to public safety. In certain environmental cases and other cases, that becomes the default position.

Information & Ethics committee  My concern is that too many horses have left too many stables when it comes to the way that information can now be transmitted. I would say again that I don't think it's in the remit of this committee to take a look at wider public service and political aide behaviour, but I believe that there has to be some teeth put in somehow in order to make sure that the provision of information and the record-keeping of the important footprints of our history are not in the smart phones of political aides and public servants.

Information & Ethics committee  That's right.

Information & Ethics committee  Well, in my experience, the people who are in ATIP branches are there for one of two reasons. They're tremendous advocates for the public and disclosure, or the other side is that it's a bit of a weigh station for them to move on to something else. The changeover in those branches is often very high, and as a result the continuity in those organizations can be lacking.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes. With the students I teach, we have an exercise where we provide about three or four of those requests in the course of the three hours that I'll teach them.

Information & Ethics committee  Again, it's a long answer, but I'll shorten it as much as I can, here. The academy, in particular, now speaks of the activist journalist as an element of information provision. As long as you declare conflicts and let the audience know where you're coming from on a particular issue, you can, in fact, have a more activist role in society than the traditional journalist might have had.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes, let's spend the next four or five hours here. First of all, there is no such thing as objectivity, right? It's a bit of a myth about journalism. However, there are objective methods. We teach objective methods in order to do research. One of them has to do with primary sources, which come through documents and interviews with particular people, and some of them are secondary sources that involve interpretation.

Information & Ethics committee  Is that not right? What is the number? I haven't seen the latest world ranking.

Information & Ethics committee  Well, I think Canada now has been ranked, in the last survey I saw somewhere, around 57th or 58th in the world, so it's—

Information & Ethics committee  I teach them to develop patience, to be further accepting of rejection as part of the craft. What I try to teach them is that it is still an important pursuit. I believe that it is one of the more sophisticated ways in order to do your research, because you're really depending on the actual official records.

Information & Ethics committee  Well, I think that's true, because I think we're dependent on the interpretation of the information providers in the interim, before you see the official record. I will say that where our craft makes its mistake is that we cover too much and uncover too little. Access to information is a way to uncover things.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes, I was going by the global right to information rating, and in the last one I have, which is from 2019, Canada was ranked 57th.

Information & Ethics committee  My world record for a redacted document was a 2,700-page one. I got lovely new sheets of paper to put into my fax machine at the time. I would say that it probably does best in empowering the Information Commissioner to have greater oversight and, if necessary, to then have a small agency, a small board or a small adjunct to the Information Commissioner's office in order to help arbitrate redactions so that the public interest is served better.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes, there are. There's some data to that effect. In British Columbia, I think journalists use the law here upwards of 35% to 40% of the time. I can understand entirely the reasoning behind all of this, and I think some of it has to do with distance and the relationship of local government and provincial government to any news organization.