Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes. Some work that was done and put together by the Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council confirms that ag lost an estimated $3.5 billion in sales in 2022 because they didn't have enough workers. In that survey, they also found that the ag sector has an above average vacancy rate of 7.5%, with two in five employers saying that they couldn't find the workers they needed.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes. In certain areas, they're helpful in transitioning permanent residents. Remember that our business, Sunterra Farms, is in Alberta, and we've had very good success with the provincial nomination program and the rural renewal program to transition folks through permanent residency.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Do you mean the ability to recruit foreign workers or Canadians?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think our ability to recruit foreign workers is there today as a business. That's fine. There are some nuances with the program to ensure that it's streamlined. There are some positives coming out of the program, such as a recognized employer model, which is going to help streamline recruiting temporary foreign workers for sure, but the biggest thing that would be helpful would be the IRCC component, the actual process and the work permits.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It's a bit frustrating, because if you get a report of a situation at work that triggers an inspection, everything that is in the works is on hold at that time, so you're guilty until proven innocent. I think the program works backwards, because it should be like Canadian law: innocent until proven guilty.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That is true, yes. That's our experience.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think if it can be done virtually, that's fine. Personally, I think if someone is reporting a problem in the workplace, if it's in a greenhouse or on a farm, then it would only make sense for somebody to get there to look at it first-hand, but that individual has to understand the business.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's a great question. If employers are abusing the program or abusing workers, they should be blacklisted and kicked out. I'm all for that, and that currently exists. If an investigation occurs that is driven by a worker's complaint and the employer is deemed to be significantly at fault or creating abusive situations, then that employer does get blacklisted and can no longer use the temporary foreign worker program to hire workers.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It is a big concern that someone could just basically stand at the airport and cherry-pick, despite all the work that someone else has done, and then you end up without a worker.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, that would definitely be a problem because, as we know, today most of the immigration is to urban centres and a lot of people like to be living in urban centres. That's part of the issue of the rural depopulation going on in Canada. Being able to bring a worker directly to rural Canada helps revitalize those communities.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That is a concern, for sure. I think there needs to be more discussion around that with employers on how exactly that would work. I think it needs to be narrowed down to the specific NOC code—not just a sector or agriculture. If we're trying to bring people to fill jobs on hog farms, then that's the NOC code we need and we don't want those guys leaving to do something else in agriculture where there's not necessarily a shortage.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I did mention in my opening remarks that there's an opportunity where, if employees feel they're not happy where they are, they can apply to another employer. If those employees look at the job bank—because every employer trying to recruit temporary foreign workers will be advertising on the job bank—they'll be able to find employers with LMIAs and they can apply to them.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I do. When workers arrive, we give them a pamphlet with all the information they need, including the hotline they can call if they feel there's a problem.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The challenge with the housing is that under the agriculture stream, for any on-site housing, all you can charge is $30 a week. In essence, that program starts driving you towards doing more bunk-style housing, whereas in our organization, up until this point, on the farms we've encouraged that at least everyone has their own bedroom.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I am not.