Justice committee  Mr. Chair, I want to thank members of the committee. I understand the job that the official opposition and opposition parties have to do, because I have done that, and I understand the job that government members have to do, because I'm doing that. I thank you, Chair, for the way you run your hearings.

Justice committee  On the matter of Saskatchewan, I guess it's important that I confirm that I don't want to speak to that.

Justice committee  I know how much I'd love it if the Saskatchewan Attorney General spoke to something about Ontario.

Justice committee  We proposed these new offences and they received the support of former Justice Minister Cotler and Prime Minister Martin, and they were embodied in Bill C-82 and they're embodied in this bill. The reason why we brought them forward, as you probably have heard, is that there's a mix of sources for the illegal gun trade.

Justice committee  I am certainly very aware of the changes to conditional sentences that are before Parliament right now. We've spoken to that before as well, and we've been encouraging changes to the conditional sentencing regime.

Justice committee  I get to go to question period in about three hours, where, as I think the government knows, it's question period and not always answer period. So this is a good dress rehearsal, and I appreciate it, Mr. Brown. The McGuinty Government of Ontario, which includes Ministers Kwinter and Bryant, support the changes that are embodied in this bill, that we need mandatory minimum sentences increased and that we need new mandatory minimums.

Justice committee  No, I don't have it in front of me, which is not to say the ministry could not put estimates together.

Justice committee  I will look into it. I don't want to commit to getting something to the committee, but I will certainly look into it.

Justice committee  I'll say again, I believe that Parliament ought to denounce these offences, which doesn't speak to deterrence. I believe that incapacitating somebody who engages in a gun crime is necessary and important and in the public interest. I think, with respect, common sense dictates that spending time in jail is a deterrent, although, as the chief said, it doesn't apply to everybody.

Justice committee  Well, one person's reduction of discretion is another person's clarification. The purpose of this is for Parliament to say, as it does with other Criminal Code offences, “Here is what Parliament believes ought to be the mandatory minimum.” I would argue an amendment ought to be made so that it would be clarified that it's not the maximum.

Justice committee  On the submission of written materials, I have, as I'm sure may of you do, the dreadful habit of walking into a room with written materials and then departing from them from time to time. I will try to provide some written materials on the issue you spoke to me about. On the matter of mandatory minimums being floors but not ceilings, I gave the committee an example—one I'm not going to repeat here—of a very serious circumstance involving 23 illegal handguns that could kill a lot of people.

Justice committee  Yes, it will send a signal. It would send a stronger signal if we amended it to include some offences that dealt with, as I say, possession of a firearm in an unauthorized place and possession of a firearm in a motor vehicle. Further, it would be an error, in my respectable submission—take it for what it's worth—to look only at one purpose and only to look at deterrence.

Justice committee  That was before our time.

Justice committee  I'd agree with that.

Justice committee  I'm not sure I can be helpful. I know the Attorney General of Saskatchewan, and we've spoken about a number of issues. We haven't spoken about that one. I don't know enough about the specifics on that. Obviously, this committee has to consider what applies to all Canadians in all parts of Canada.