Fisheries committee  Sir, we had a little meeting with the Cheam Band--I'm separate from the issue associated with Frank--and the Cheam Band was quite concerned about the negative media they were getting as part of the Big Bar extraction. They were quite concerned about various issues--I'm talking about BCIT--and we were empathetic with the Cheam Band in regard to that because they were authorized by DFO to do this.

Fisheries committee  Could I ask just one question? Or is that too late?

Fisheries committee  Yes, just a quick question. We've been advised that senior managers or executives have, within their work plan or work contract, provisos for achieving certain target levels for gravel removal, and bonuses attached to that. I guess the question we're asking is whether this committee can look into that and see if that's the case.

Fisheries committee  The basis of the science was to try to come up with a true estimate of gravel recruitment. Money was vetted to the department of geography at UBC to come up with a total estimate. The objective was that once the estimate was derived, the extraction would continue as a function of that estimate.

Fisheries committee  Oh, it was implemented to be able to have a timeframe for measurement, to look at the biology. I basically got money for a couple of graduate students to do some primary fundamental biology to try to get an understanding of the habitat value of these large gravel bars. The moratorium was just a kind of breather space to get the information in place.

Fisheries committee  I guess the first thing is that gravel removal for flood protection doesn't have the same kind of diligence as riparian and other issues. It's such a hot topic--and it doesn't matter whether you're talking about the Fraser, the Vedder-Chilliwack, the Chehalis or whatever--that if people's property and/or lives are being affected, removal has precedence, and we understand that.

Fisheries committee  Yes, there's natural de-watering of redds all over the place. That's not an unusual circumstance. You can point those out; they are very clear in their demarcation. Recently de-watered gravel has a very different colour. It hasn't dried out yet; it is still moist. De-watering of redds is a natural occurrence on the Fraser.

Fisheries committee  I would say so. But the thing about these pink salmon, particularly in this channel, was that the bulk of the redds were below this particular perimeter. There were some above the perimeter that had been de-watered, so there would have been--it looked to us like there were some naturally de-watered redds.

Fisheries committee  There's one in Mission, one in Chilliwack, and one in Cloverdale.

Fisheries committee  Basically, the BCIT group has had some dialogue with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, with Ed Woo, specifically, who is chairing the review committee, and they have told us they'd like to come out and see our report, basically talk about what we found and how they can do things better next time.

Fisheries committee  The Big Bar area?

Fisheries committee  There would have been two bars right here. Big Bar is right over here. Popkum is right there and then Hamilton is right there and Seabird Island--if there was some taken out, which I think there was--is somewhere up there.

Fisheries committee  About fifteen miles, I would think, in total.

Fisheries committee  Actually, it's a conveyor belt. It's not even a Bailey bridge; it's a conveyor belt.

Fisheries committee  The season may be correct.