Industry committee  It's a great question, and thank you. In fact, all merchants will tell you they always welcome more competition because it means more choice. This is where I think it's important to understand that there's no competition. If Visa and MasterCard enter the debit market, they will be in the business of trying to attract issuers to their brand.

Finance committee  In fact, yes. If a retailer signs a contract with the processor to accept either Visa or MasterCard, the contract itself is very specific. They cannot inform the consumer of the fee they're paying to accept a card. They cannot encourage the consumer to change the card, in fact, to sway them to another product.

Finance committee  It's a great question, and thank you. In fact, all merchants will tell you they always welcome more competition because it means more choice. This is where I think it's important to understand that there's no competition. If Visa and MasterCard enter the debit market, they will be in the business of trying to attract issuers to their brand.

Industry committee  Yes, I'd like to add to the question. I'm a bit concerned that we're talking about transparency here, believing that it is going to solve all the problem. While our banks are indeed chartered Canadian banks, Visa and MasterCard are not Canadian companies, and in fact have made an art form of ensuring that even if you think you are getting transparency, you're not.

Finance committee  Yes, I'd like to add to the question. I'm a bit concerned that we're talking about transparency here, believing that it is going to solve all the problem. While our banks are indeed chartered Canadian banks, Visa and MasterCard are not Canadian companies, and in fact have made an art form of ensuring that even if you think you are getting transparency, you're not.

Industry committee  I'd like to clarify that there's no transparency. There has been, seemingly, a bit more discussion with Visa and MasterCard. But in fact, at a meeting, when we asked why they were introducing all these new fees, the answer was “Because we can.” I think that would explain the relationship that exists.

Finance committee  I'd like to clarify that there's no transparency. There has been, seemingly, a bit more discussion with Visa and MasterCard. But in fact, at a meeting, when we asked why they were introducing all these new fees, the answer was “Because we can.” I think that would explain the relationship that exists.

Industry committee  I think we would all agree--both our Quebec coalition and the national coalition, and certainly the CFIB--that for most small businesses it would be disastrous if they just walked away from their credit card business. At the end of the day, as consumers, we all find credit and debit very useful.

Industry committee  No, it's impossible.

Finance committee  I think we would all agree--both our Quebec coalition and the national coalition, and certainly the CFIB--that for most small businesses it would be disastrous if they just walked away from their credit card business. At the end of the day, as consumers, we all find credit and debit very useful.

Finance committee  No, it's impossible.

Industry committee  Well, no, because here are two problems for a small business, or any kind of business. Number one, the moment you sign a contract with your processor to accept Visa cards, you must accept all their cards, including MasterCard. They have an “honour all cards” rule. In fact, MasterCard is now going to be introducing a super-premium card.

Finance committee  Well, no, because here are two problems for a small business, or any kind of business. Number one, the moment you sign a contract with your processor to accept Visa cards, you must accept all their cards, including MasterCard. They have an “honour all cards” rule. In fact, MasterCard is now going to be introducing a super-premium card.

Industry committee  It's my pleasure to comment on that. In fact, the government was not silent on the price of goods in Canada. We remember a moment when the minister took a book and compared the price between--

Industry committee  So was our organization, indeed. I think it's important to note, first of all, that the retail market is a competitive market. A consumer can choose to shop in thousands of stores, eat in thousands of establishments. That's the number one comparison. With Visa and MasterCard, merchants don't have that opportunity.