Public Accounts committee  I can't speak to the specifics of it. We had many engagements. I engaged several times with some of the principals and others. We went through some of these areas. The point is that the $35 million did not include a lot of the capital costs, capital improvements, so we went through a fair bit of this.

Public Accounts committee  I can. We have a number of factors, some of which you point at, rightfully so, and that the Auditor General points at. On historical costs, are they the best indication of future costs? The answer is no. At times when we're doing some of these things—and again, in a period without the “costers” we have today—the only data we have is historical costs.

Public Accounts committee  We don't have fixed-priced contracts for maintenance. Sometimes we'll have a fixed floor. A lot of what's been described here is, I'll say, a minimum payment. There's been an evolution of in-service support contracts. Twenty years ago, largely for time and materiel contracts, when we had a large workforce, we would break out the equipment, and we'd have well over 12,000 contracts.

Public Accounts committee  It's very similar to ours. In fact, we share best practices, and they have the same challenges we have.

Public Accounts committee  It has started in a number of things that are being bid on. If I look at such things as fixed-wing search and rescue and a number of other carriers, Canadians are doing a lot of the integration around C4ISR solutions, small and medium enterprises that are being leveraged.

Public Accounts committee  Again, if I could, that's where we're working with ISED, and they lead this area for the government. What we're doing around key industrial capabilities is, in fact, to identify that as a key industrial capability, to leverage it using intellectual technological benefits to drive it into a lot of our products.

Public Accounts committee  I think the key policy enabler is around the industrial and technological benefits program at Industry, Science and Economic Development Canada. In the context that you ask how we are specifically leveraging—

Public Accounts committee  Well, a lot of it is happening. If you look at a project like the Canadian surface combatant as an example and request for proposals coming in, 10%, I think, is the number of the value that has to be around small and medium enterprises' research and development innovation. We're already seeing, through the application of the policy, direct implications for Canadian companies, small and medium enterprises.

Public Accounts committee  I think in the context of dollar amount, we're at more than half. As we brought the systems together, we tried to look at where our biggest expenditure is, and that is in the private sector, the support contracts. We've been working on building the performance measures there, testing them out, and using them.

Public Accounts committee  Yes, sir, it is.

Public Accounts committee  I manage well over 12,000 contracts.

Public Accounts committee  Just within the materiel group, it's between about $5 billion and $6 billion a year. There are some funds that come from elsewhere in the department, so I don't have a complete number for you, but I would say it's in the magnitude of $6 billion to $7 billion a year.

Public Accounts committee  That specific contract is one of our larger contracts. We renegotiate all the contracts as they come due. We're introducing more of a performance base into all of them. There's a specific example; he's just describing one of the six, not only one in total. We've done a lot more.

National Defence committee  Thank you, sir, for the question. Yes, we're on track. Again, it's a service to be delivered in the fall of 2017. Federal Fleet Services, as the company is now called, with whom we are in contract, for whom the Davie shipyard is a subcontractor, is very open. We're there monthly and have a third party overseeing it.

National Defence committee  Mr. Paul-Hus, I would just add that these are the weapons that Canadian special forces use for training purposes. We also have to make sure that we provide arms and munitions that can last a long time, meaning after the end of this mission. We try to be precise in the model we choose, so that it can be used for a long time.