Fisheries committee  Well, that's not quite true either. The act doesn't say that the minister must follow scientific advice; it says he must consider scientific advice. He must consider the precautionary approach. It doesn't say that he has to consider and follow it. I think that's a clear distinction.

Fisheries committee  Some scientists--not all--are saying that that is in fact the case, and it's a major component of natural mortality in the southern gulf. I think we also have to put it in a broader context. We had a population that was depleted by significant fishing. It was subject to low productivity while that fishing was going on, and we knocked the population down well below a reasonable limit.

Fisheries committee  No, I'm not taking issue with that. What I am saying is there is ongoing debate in the scientific community. Those scientists who study the seals and their place in the ecosystem are not coming to that conclusion. Those scientists who look after fish are more inclined to see the correlation between the population of seals and the productivity and increased mortality in cod.

Fisheries committee  That was on harp seals, and we were looking at maintenance of a product of harp seal population. They are not resident in the gulf, and they don't cause the problems that we've heard about in terms of southern gulf cod.

Fisheries committee  The science isn't perfect. There's always uncertainty. That's why we have a range in the advice that we get, and there are probabilities and so on and so forth. I would say, however, simply put, that we don't see a fundamental problem with the science. I think in the northern gulf as well as the southern gulf--let's put it in context--those fisheries were 60,000 tonnes throughout the whole first half of the 20th century.

Fisheries committee  I have a very brief opening statement to put this whole issue into context. We're managing fisheries now in a very different kind of environment from what we have had in the past. We're faced with the scrutiny that exists in the marketplace, where we have to demonstrate that fisheries are sustainable.

Fisheries committee  It involves 3L shrimp and an objection by Denmark with respect to the Faroe Islands and Greenland. They set a unilateral quota, and that would therefore result in a catch that was higher than the agreed upon TAC. Because of that, we closed the port some years ago. We've been having discussions to try to resolve outstanding objections at NAFO.

Fisheries committee  Right now the minister issues a licence each year. There's no legal status in that licence beyond one year. The practice has been to reissue, of course, but legally that licence only lasts for a year. If you're a lending institution, you're being asked to lend somebody money on an asset that only lasts a year, and is issued at the absolute discretion of the minister.

Fisheries committee  We have had discussions with banks and blended institutions, provinces, and of course the fishers about changes to policies regarding how licences are reissued. That's the vernacular for licence transfer. In the past it has been up to the fisherman whose name is on the licence to name the person to whom they wish to have that licence reissued.

Fisheries committee  That's what they're asking.

Fisheries committee  We haven't gone there yet. That's something that could be considered at some point in the future, but we aren't doing that at this point. We are simply seeing now whether what we have provided to the lending institutions will be adequate to provide capital for this combining of enterprises.

Fisheries committee  We have, as you're aware, a situation where the minister has absolute discretion under the law to allocate fish and provide licences. Generally that's done as a result of advice received and other considerations. Those decisions are then made public. We provide press releases, and there are quota tables on the website.

Fisheries committee  The budgets we have for aboriginal access to fisheries are not directly related to land claims. They are a bridge. We are looking at providing additional access. That will be considered as part of the process eventually when treaties are reached, but that does not represent recognition of the aboriginal right to a certain quantity of fish.

Fisheries committee  Clearly there's been a requirement for the inner Bay of Fundy to establish a recovery plan for that species under the Species at Risk Act, and that's been done. We are also involved in collaborative work on the research, what's causing this problem, because fish have been leaving the river but they aren't coming back.

Fisheries committee  That's separate, coming out of the species at risk funding. It is a listed species, and we do have a budget for the species at risk legislation.