Public Accounts committee  Overall, when you look at all the deputy ministers and heads of agencies who could have received performance pay in 2004-05, 7% did not receive any at-risk pay; 46% received some of their at-risk pay; 27.8% received the maximum of at-risk pay; and 19% received their bonus. The guideline from the Conference Board of Canada is saying that when you have an at-risk pay compensation regime, roughly at least 5% should not receive anything, and 20% at most should receive the bonus, so this falls within these parameters.

Public Accounts committee  Once again, that's part of the scoping that Treasury Board Secretariat does vis-à-vis the management responsibilities. Managing of staff, managing of the department, including the HR management responsibilities of the deputy, is an important part of that assessment.

Public Accounts committee  I was keeping my remarks as short as I could because I knew there would be questions.

Public Accounts committee  I believe since 1999. There was an advisory committee on the retention and remuneration for senior officials, which is now chaired by Carol Stephenson, that made a recommendation that there be at-risk pay as part of the compensation package for senior executives in the public service, including deputy ministers.

Public Accounts committee  There are different levels of deputy ministers, but there is a portion for a deputy minister, for example, at the first level, DM-1. Up to 10% of the pay is basically held aside for the purposes of ascertaining whether that deputy has reached the objectives that have been set in the person's performance agreement.

Public Accounts committee  For DM-2 and DM-3, it's up to 13% at-risk pay, with a potential 7% bonus, and for DM-4--there are only two of those, the Clerk of the Privy Council and the Deputy Minister of Finance--it's up to 17% with a potential of 8% bonus for surpassing the objectives.

Public Accounts committee  Perhaps you'll bear with me.

Public Accounts committee  It's my BlackBerry. I forgot to bring it with me, and so I asked someone—

Public Accounts committee  Effective April 1, the salary range of a DM-1 is $170,000 to $200,000. For a DM-2, it's $195,500 to $230,000. For a DM-3, it's $218,800 to $257,500. And for a DM-4, it's $245,100 to $288,400.

Public Accounts committee  We get feedback in terms of the assessment of the deputy ministers from the Treasury Board Secretariat, so they would have, among other things, the feedback from the Comptroller General. The Auditor General doesn't have a direct link to this, but as I mentioned—

Public Accounts committee  Looking at the different sources of input for the assessment of deputies, that's the key one on the management issues. It is done on the basis of, on the one hand, the priority areas that are identified by the secretariat for each deputy minister and then, more generally, in terms of the application of the MAF and the department's performance vis-à-vis the MAF.

Public Accounts committee  I'd have to go back and look at the specifics of that situation.

Public Accounts committee  Once again, it's part of the assessment made by the Treasury Board Secretariat in providing the input on the deputy's performance vis-à-vis the management priorities for that department and that department's performance vis-à-vis the MAF.

Public Accounts committee  I can't tell you off the top of my head. I'll have to look into that and get back to the committee.

Public Accounts committee  Well, I'd have to look at the cases where there have been terminations of appointments. These appointments are made at pleasure and they could be ended either by resignation or because the appointment can be terminated. So I'd have to look back at the instances where appointments of deputy ministers have been terminated, which would be the closest to what you would call firing, unless there's someone who resigned under a cloud in those circumstances.