Transport committee  Absolutely. If we can solve some of those problems, there's also a huge benefit from the point of view of community relations.

Transport committee  We would prefer that it be dealt with here and now through an amendment with the committee. We think there's a fairly strong consensus on that issue. It's the kind of direction that really is best coming from the legislators, as opposed to leaving it to a regulatory process. The third item I mentioned had to do with group FOA.

Transport committee  Let me speak to each one directly. With regard to the commercial harm, I've already spoken to our point of view there. We just think it's good commercial practice that if you do get into a dispute and there is a need to determine what the recourse is--how do you fix it?--then obviously you need to look at what the commercial harm was.

Transport committee  Let me first speak to your comment on deregulation. If we had not had deregulation, we would be in a major crisis today. Since deregulation, we have invested more than twice as much as we ever invested under regulation. Under the regulatory regime, it just didn't make any business sense to invest, because you couldn't get a reasonable return on the capital from the investment.

Transport committee  You're right. We're disappointed with it as well, and we did try very hard. My colleague, Monsieur Patenaude, referred to the CDR process. That was the major effort that was made to try to address the request of the minister to find a commercially based approach to dealing with some of these issues as opposed to looking at a legislative solution.

Transport committee  My understanding, Mr. Volpe, is that the Alberta position is that there are other provisions that would look after commercial harm. Our view is that the provision has been around for many years. It's not unusual commercial practice, when you get into disputes, to have a two-step process.

Transport committee  Obviously, we disagree. I guess I would simply offer the observation that most of the representations that have been made with regard to this issue are either from shippers directly or from those who see a common interest with shippers, for whatever reason. If there is a dilution of the need to determine commercial harm, that would obviously skew the process, to some degree, to the interest of shippers.

Transport committee  All I can say to that is that if you examine the record in terms of what's happened to actual rates in the last 10 to 15 years, what's happened to the level of service, the fluidity of the system, and the ability of the system to actually deliver on the demands, it's a pretty good news story, as I said in my opening remarks.

Transport committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I intend to speak for most of the time, and then I'm going to ask my colleague Mr. Patenaude to say a few words as well. The Railway Association of Canada, as many of you know, represents some 60 railways across the country, which number represents virtually the whole railway community in Canada: the large class 1 freights, the short lines, regional railways, intercity passenger and commuter railways, as well as a number of tourist operators.

Human Resources committee  I'm not sure we'd write that as a big concern, but I will comment very briefly on violence. We've been very fortunate in our relationships over a large number of years. We just have not had that kind of violence, and we would hope that would continue. Unfortunately, particularly in the last few years, we've had a number of incidents where our operations have been disrupted for native protests and other reasons.

Human Resources committee  I'll be very brief. Yes, there is a growing concern about qualified labour in our industry and in most industries, and we are initiating a wide range of things to try to deal with that. As to whether this legislation provides the balance in that new environment, we are, as I said earlier, very skeptical.

Human Resources committee  Absolutely, even if you define essential services very narrowly in the context of public safety. Yes, rail carriers provide a number of services that would be considered essential. I mentioned one in my presentation. It's extremely important for public health that we move certain goods to certain places, for water supply systems and other things.

Human Resources committee  The answer is yes, but just to give you a sense of the size, our two largest members are CN and CP. CN has seven major unions with 21 bargaining units, and CPR has five major unions with seven bargaining units. So we are a highly unionized industry. Even some of our smaller members are quite unionized.

Human Resources committee  It depends on the union. For public safety purposes, we are highly regulated, and many, many of our employees carry specific certifications in order to undertake certain tasks in the industry. If some of those people were to withdraw their service, and we had no way of deploying management or other people who were appropriately certified to do those jobs, then you would essentially shut down the operation very quickly.

Human Resources committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, let me express, on behalf of my members, our appreciation for this motion that you just dealt with. It has been a matter of quite some concern with our members that more time was needed, but let me now turn to my remarks. The Railway Association of Canada represents virtually all railways operating in Canada, most of which are federally regulated, including the large class 1 CN and CPR railways, short-line and regional railways, intercity passenger and commuter rail services, and tourist railways.