National Defence committee  Yes, sir. Industrial participation plans have been signed between Canada and three industrial groups for the second engine--Lockheed Martin, Pratt & Whitney, and GE Rolls-Royce. The plans are quite detailed and talk about three levels of new opportunities for contracts for Canadian firms, all predicated on placing an order for fighters.

National Defence committee  I really don't have any idea what the details are in the agreement between the United States government and the Israeli government. The price works out to about $135 million per aircraft, which isn't surprising because the cost of production now is much higher than it will be four or five years from now when it's a very efficient production line.

National Defence committee  Industrial participation is proportional to the partner nations' contributions to the program. In Canada's case, our contributions have been $168 million to date, and a total of $551 million over the full 40-year period of the MOU. So we are not necessarily guaranteed, but effectively have opportunities to participate as a partner competitively in the industrial opportunities that are proportional to our contribution.

National Defence committee  The Brazilian Air Force is not a member of the MOU. If they were to select a joint strike fighter, they would have to purchase it under foreign military sales from the U.S. government. The U.S. government will not participate in their competition. The U.S. government will simply tell them that this is our sale price.

National Defence committee  Mr. Chairman, sir, clearly Brazil and Canada have different geopolitical environments. Canada is a G-8 country. Canada is one of the founding members of both the UN and NATO, and as a G-8 country, we participate in hard things. Brazil is an entirely different world and geopolitical and geographical environment.

National Defence committee  I would have to leave it to the Chief of the Air Staff, if he appears, to talk to the requirements that perhaps Brazil would feel sufficient versus the requirements Canada would feel sufficient. For the requirements the Chief of the Air Staff has identified, which range from close air support to operations in a high-threat, air-to-air environment, they have made it very clear that the characteristics of the fifth-generation fighter are critical.

National Defence committee  I am not aware of all the details of it.

National Defence committee  I'm not sure if I got all of that. I'll give it a try. You might have to remind me if I miss a couple.

National Defence committee  Thank you, sir. We didn't anticipate the Yugoslavia mission. We didn't anticipate we would have to fly air combat into Yugoslavia. No one anticipated the invasion of Kuwait in the first Iraq war and the second Iraq war. Most people would say you don't need stealth and an F-35 to do the close support missions in Afghanistan.

National Defence committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm delighted to be back. First I'd like to talk about the operational requirements for a moment or two. Let’s remember we are acquiring a fighter for the next 30 or 40 years. I would ask whether you would want your son or daughter or future granddaughter in yesterday’s technology or in the most effective and secure aircraft in the future.

National Defence committee  Perhaps I'd just fairly quickly point out that Mr. Slack has already talked to the ITAR's special access that will be in place for all the partner countries and that actually takes that off the table. In terms of intellectual property, we clearly will get access for Canadian companies to fully do maintenance on the joint strike fighters as they do on Hercules or C-17s and so on, particularly first-, second-, and part of third-line maintenance.

National Defence committee  Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Yes, Mr. Hawn, as General Deschamps talked about, the joint requirements process and in fact the joint and combined process with international partners did result in three mutually complementary variants and a very comprehensive and flexible range of capabilities.

National Defence committee  They tell me that every day.

National Defence committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will leave the industrial participation question to my colleague Mr. Parker from Industry Canada. I think he has some very positive things to talk about. From the defence procurement point of view, things have changed dramatically. We have gone from the lowest price compliant, detailed specifications--a process that took a decade--to performance-based procurement.

National Defence committee  Mr. Chairman, Mr. Slack can correct me if I'm wrong--he is the expert on it--but my understanding is that, no, technically it does not prevent you from entering into another process. It does prevent you from acquiring it through a direct commercial contract without withdrawing from the PMOU.