Public Safety committee  Well, absolutely. There are many reasons we should stand firm against the use of torture in interrogation sessions. Above all else, we should stand firm because torture is so abhorrent. It is absolutely illegal, and we should just never allow it in any circumstances. But there is a very practical consideration, that when law and security agencies make use of torture, the information they're obtaining is unreliable.

Public Safety committee  I can't give you specific illustrations--for example, here is this piece of information obtained under torture, used by CSIS in this way--but I can certainly indicate that you're right; we have not heard a clear repudiation of the use of torture by CSIS. We have instead heard indications that they wouldn't use it on its own, that they would certainly want to make sure that it was confirmed or corroborated by other information.

Public Safety committee  I, too, was going say training. You cannot overemphasize how important training on exactly those issues of human rights and civil liberties is. We see time after time, with various government agencies and departments in Canada and around the world, that when it comes to the human rights part of the training, whatever the context may be, it's kind of a one-hour module at the end of everything else.

Public Safety committee  I'll suggest two key considerations, but others may have more to add. The first has to do with deterrent value. If it starts to become known that those bodies exist, and that even if it is after the fact, those bodies are going to take a hard look at what's happened in a particular case and take action, that's going to deter wrongdoing.

Public Safety committee  My reaction would be that this is a very laudable goal but it has been done. Justice O'Connor made that a central part of his efforts to decide the best review mechanism for Canada. He drew on expertise in a number of other countries. His staff spent time in other countries investigating that.

Public Safety committee  Absolutely. In addition to the revelations that already were quite well known, I think, before Justice O'Connor did his work--the fact that the Commission for Public Complaints, for instance, had inadequate powers--I think the most stark and important lesson about review and oversight that emerges from looking at these four cases and reviewing Justice O'Connor's report is that we need an integrated, comprehensive approach.

Public Safety committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Alex Neve. I'm the secretary general of Amnesty International. Amnesty International has played a central role in the work around all four of the cases that you are examining, from very early days, when Maher Arar had just been arrested in the United States.

International Trade committee  Easily. There are numerous cases, including very recent cases of that being so. One of our key recommendations to the Colombian government--and this goes back years--is the absolutely vital importance that the government stop deriding the work of human rights defenders, who are so vital to moving forward a meaningful human rights agenda in Colombia, but constantly have their work derided in these ways that accuses them of being supporters or even direct members of guerrilla groups simply because they're speaking out about social justice issues.

International Trade committee  Let me take them in the order you outlined them. The notion that we would set up a solidarity fund, or whatever it be called, to be there to remedy abuses after they've happened, to provide some sort of redress to victims after their rights have been violated, is simply not the approach.

International Trade committee  Let me begin with the question about numbers and statistics, which I agree with you has.... And not just in the context of the hearings you're holding, but with respect to a whole variety of international-level discussions and debates about Colombia's human rights situation. There is this back and forth, this tussle about statistics.

International Trade committee  Yes, thank you.

International Trade committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and committee members. Amnesty International certainly welcomes the opportunity to be in front of you this afternoon on this very important issue. I'd like to begin by sharing with you a global urgent action that Amnesty International issued just a few short hours ago on behalf of 17 human rights defenders and labour activists who have received death threats in Colombia over the past week.

Foreign Affairs committee  There's obviously any number of areas where one could say that resources are inadequate, and I think domestic human rights capacity, human rights monitoring, human rights institutions are areas of real concern. The Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission is an incredibly important institution in the country; it has done some great work.

Foreign Affairs committee  Yes, in many respects it is. It's been very difficult to get reliable information about Canada's approach, and that does compare notably to other countries that are much more forthcoming with information. The U.S. government issues press releases talking about detentions, giving dates and numbers.

Foreign Affairs committee  I have a very brief footnote to that. I think that's why it's so critical that this be recognized as a NATO challenge in need of a NATO solution and not just something that lies on Canada's shoulders.