Government Operations committee  If you go whole of government for all three levels, you're up in that range, yes. I heard it was 87%.

Government Operations committee  This is another one of those examples of something that was committed to in a budget and it has now been through the process of going to Treasury Board and getting all the questions asked and properly developed spending. So the money for first nations and Inuit health was a budget 2013 commitment, so it was in the budget, $1.8 billion over three years.

Government Operations committee  I'm just thumbing through. So if you go to Public Accounts, they have a lovely...and this is not on a cash basis, but there is a 10-year spending profile, revenues and spending. So I'll go back the full 10 years. In 2004 you would have seen total expenses of about $191 billion.

Government Operations committee  You were asking about the actual accumulated deficit itself, which sits at $602 billion, you're quite correct.

Government Operations committee  Yes, at the end of the fiscal year 2013.

Government Operations committee  And again, this is an accrual accounting basis...Public Accounts of Canada.

Government Operations committee  There are two things. The actual disaster financial assistance program is a specific program that was originally designed for natural disasters. It's a program that is formula-driven. The funding for the Alberta floods, which did hit a very densely populated area of Alberta, Calgary, etc....

Government Operations committee  It is difficult for two reasons. Number one, the accounting standards that Canada, Australia, and a few other countries use are far more strict. For instance, if you were to look at the financial statements of Greece, they're not very pretty, but they also don't include a lot of liabilities that should be on the books—pensions, benefits, things like that.

Government Operations committee  We do, in other reports. If you looked at France, for instance, France doesn't put their pension liabilities in the books. So you can't really do a comparison between France and Canada because they haven't got the whole picture. But, if you look at Canada and Australia, both are financially healthy and both complete liabilities.

Government Operations committee  It's not in your book.

Government Operations committee  The total interest-bearing debt for the Government of Canada is $892 billion. Then if I go across on that line, public sector pensions are $151 billion of the $892 billion.

Government Operations committee  Thirty seconds? Okay. The total debt of the government is $892 billion and, of that $892 billion, the pension liability, which is a form of debt, is $151 billion.

Government Operations committee  You asked two questions. The first has to do with capital. If the government were to review its spending, most of the cuts would be to operating expenditures. If you look at the planned spending on capital, you will not see a drastic difference between current years and previous years.

Government Operations committee  I'd say partially right. There are unpredictable things. The flooding is a great example of an unpredictable thing. There are also things that simply were planned in the announced budget but the spending plan of the department wasn't ready in time to make it into main estimates.

Government Operations committee  I'd say a couple of things. Pension accounting is complex and so you will see some cash from time to time—and I will turn to my CFO colleague here in a moment—where the actuary makes a recommendation to flow additional cash. From a fiscal perspective, accounting perspective, and a budget perspective, pensions are a long-term game.