Public Accounts committee  No. I explained last week, sir, that going to Public Works we thought was a good thing, because Public Works is usually pretty tough on contracts. They are the experts in the government. What happened in this case is that he happened to find an individual within Public Works who colluded with him.

Public Accounts committee  We were unaware. He wasn't aware either. This was a collusion between two individuals.

Public Accounts committee  How would we have known that these contracts were not being given out as they should have been given out?

Public Accounts committee  The escalating costs--we looked at that many times. The problem with the escalating costs is that we also had to implement Bill C-78, which was a new pension act, and as a result of that, we had to produce financial statements. As a result of that, we had to get rate information, and all of this was audited both by your internal auditors and the Auditor General every year since the year 2000.

Public Accounts committee  Well, sir, we were between a rock and a hard place. We certainly couldn't charge it to pension; it had no relationship with pension. We couldn't charge it to appropriations because we have two legal opinions. There's only one place left, and that's the agreements.

Public Accounts committee  Well, where else would we have charged it?

Public Accounts committee  Well, I think we had authority, because we didn't have authority to administer insurance; therefore the premiums had to handle the administration.

Public Accounts committee  I really don't remember that meeting. I think I was probably there, but I don't remember that meeting.

Public Accounts committee  It would have been discussed with the pension advisory committee and the chairman would have made that decision, yes.

Public Accounts committee  Yes.

Public Accounts committee  It would have also been charged, I believe, to the insurance plan.

Public Accounts committee  I'm as confused as you are. Basically, my only role was that I was asked for an opinion. I gave that opinion, and that was it.

Public Accounts committee  I didn't even know that Mr. McConnell went to ATIP. Basically, we had no role to play. I don't know why he would have gone. It was up to ATIP to decide what they wanted to do. We had written our memo, we had done what we had to, and we had no other role in that situation.

Public Accounts committee  No; initially it was charged to pension. So then we got a cheque back from Morneau to take it out of pension because it shouldn't have been charged there in the first place. So we credited the pension, as it should be, and then we had no place to charge it except for life insurance premiums, because in the meantime we also got a legal opinion—in fact, we got two legal opinions, one from Treasury Board and one from our own legal adviser—that said we cannot charge it to appropriations because the RCMP does not have authority to operate a life insurance plan.

Public Accounts committee  That is true.