Procedure and House Affairs committee  My view is that if you've paid for the travel yourself, it is not sponsored travel. If there is a donor involved, whether a private individual or somebody else altogether, then it is sponsored travel and should be reported.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's right.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  The situation for public office holders involves another level of judgment that goes into the matter as to whether the donor in any particular case has some inappropriate relationship to the government, in the sense that they may be involved in sponsoring something that's currently under discussion or part of the responsibilities of the department for which this public office holder is responsible, so there's another set of questions we ask just to ensure that if they're accepting the gift, not only is it publicly declared, but it is also appropriate in the first place, and that's a matter of judgment.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Well, to really answer that question you would have to ask the people who created the legislation and the code in the first place. From my point of view, it's required by the code itself, so we do it. I think that's all I can say.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I could imagine if it were pertinent, but it often isn't. It's often such a small factor in a much larger picture that it often isn't really terribly relevant, but from time to time it might be. It's partly a question of how far you want to go in differentiating between real conflicts of interest and apparent conflicts of interest.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I was talking about the kind of frustration that gets expressed in the material coming to our office from the fact that they can't do this. I'm not saying it's appropriate they should do it; that's a whole other question that needs to be carefully thought through. When I imagine the number of inquiries that could thereby be launched, it's a little scary.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  One of the presuppositions I make about ethical behaviour is that it always involves a conflict of values, and therefore judgments are constantly required to be made. It cannot be reduced to a set of simple rules--i.e., if you do this, then that's fine. Ethics are simply not like that.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's right. I think that's true. And I think the same obligation devolves upon members who may launch inquiries on their own, so to speak. That is, when the member wishes to launch an inquiry about whoever, the same sort of discretion needs to be used. And I think it often is, so I don't mean that as a criticism, but it is not a question that's easy to reduce to a simple formula.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  The code requires members to give reasons and some substantiation for any allegation they might be making.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  What I didn't intend to mean by that statement was access by members of the public to the information inside the office. That's obviously not possible; it's confidential information. By access to the Ethics Commissioner, I simply indicated that we get a lot of calls and e-mails saying you should do X--you should inquire about so-and-so; you should do this; you should do that; you should do something else; I would like you to investigate Ms.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  When you appear on a talk show, let's say on television or on radio, subsequent to that you get an endless number of communications suggesting you should do A, you should do B, you should do C, you should do D, and asking why you're called the Ethics Commissioner in the first place if you can't do these things, and saying it's an outrage.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Mr. Benson will answer that question.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I should add, relative to the response to your question, that the issue of who to speak to in advance of the decision being made is very difficult. It doesn't mean to say I shouldn't try to do it better than I have done. I don't want to say that. But it's very difficult. Frequently what happens is that the relevant information will be more easily available from other people, from people not in fact named.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  All I can say in answer to a question of that nature is that I have no comment.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  They are not. They are for the public office holders but not for the members of the House. This was a matter that came up last year, and we did canvass the members of the House to ask them whether they thought this would be an appropriate next step. They were not, in fact, interested in taking that next step, so we haven't done so.