Industry committee  I think you need to look at the Quebec model, because I think they really made an effort to try to resolve that ambiguity. It's not perfect, and they admit it's not, but I think it's worth looking at.

Industry committee  I think the training issue. We talked about the training tax.

Industry committee  In fact, we were clear about that. We're talking about in-house training. We're not talking about third-party training.

Industry committee  Can I add something? I think our advice to this committee, if we want to help small business, regardless of where they are, would be that we look at the red tape. If we're going to provide programs to small merchants, for example, on energy conservation, those programs would have to be easy to manage and they'd have to be accessible.

Industry committee  I think there is a need. Is it top-of-mind for small business? Probably not. Often a small business does not have control over its environment. They don't always own the building they're in. They're often in malls, and they don't really control those costs. I think if we're looking at helping small business, we look at the things they do control, the costs they do control.

Industry committee  Thank you for your question. Often, we make a distinction between retailers and manufacturers, whereas in fact, they co-exist. If there are no workers in the manufacturing sector earning $60,000 to $70,000 per year, there are no new businesses; there are even retailers who are going out of business.

Industry committee  We look at the retail sector as part and parcel of the supply chain. If you look at the sixties and seventies, manufacturers controlled what we all chose to buy—or what we thought we'd chosen to buy. Then eventually in the late eighties and early nineties, retailers became stronger and dictated what products would be in the stores and what consumers would buy.

Industry committee  We have already developed a program in cooperation with Alberta, and it's our first test program. We are looking at the educational material and the training material we've developed, and we are now sitting with the aboriginal community to see what changes need to be made. We have the advantage of having a member called the North West Company, the old Hudson's Bay Company.

Industry committee  It's the same program, is it not?

Industry committee  I would support that. It started a couple of years ago with Alberta being in a crisis situation, but we're hearing from local members from coast to coast and national chains that they're starting to feel the pressure, that it's more and more difficult to attract and keep employees, and that it has nothing to do with wages.

Industry committee  It's of great concern to us, because as you can well appreciate, if you're a small merchant, this is called the golden quarter. If you always wondered why in the United States they call it Black Friday, it's because it's finally when retailers start making money. They live in the red until Thanksgiving Friday, and it's Black Friday.

Industry committee  The industry is already feeling the pinch, so to speak, because of what's happening in the U.S., for several reasons. One of them is that the manufacturers that retailers depend on in Canada, regardless of whether they're Canadian based or foreign owned, developed over the years a very lucrative export market in the United States, and that allowed retailers to purchase their goods in Canada at more competitive pricing because of economies of scale.

Industry committee  Based on our discussions and our projections for 2008, we don't suspect we will experience the same problems as we did in the early nineties. I have to say, though, that our biggest concern is for independent margins. You have to realize that we spend a lot of time talking about very large companies.

Industry committee  Hourly wages.

Industry committee  We used to do projections, and we've stepped back for two reasons: one, because of the labour shortage and the impact that Alberta is having on wages right across the country; and two, on the impact of the high Canadian dollar. But generally, and this is anecdotal, so far we've spoken to about 70 of the largest retailers located across the country, and all of them are reporting higher wages going forward.