Human Resources committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to be here to provide the perspective of small businesses when it comes to EI. As you may know, the CFIB represents about 95,000 small and medium-sized businesses across Canada. As we have this discussion, it's important to keep in mind the current plight of small businesses in Canada.

Human Resources committee  We heard from labour organizations and employer groups, and maybe I could just share a couple. We met with the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec, the Confédération des syndicats nationaux, the Centrale des syndicats du Québec, the Centrale des syndicats démocratiques, the Canadian Labour Congress, the Canadian Cancer Society, the MS Society of Canada and, of course, Pierre Laliberté, who's the EI commissioner for workers.

Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2020  It was a bad enough idea that it precipitated a joint letter from the labour movement, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business and the NDP, which is not something we see every day. They called for a 75% wage subsidy. When we moved forward, the New Democrats were quick to say that we needed to have rules in place right away to make sure the companies that ended up doing well overall in the first year of the pandemic were not able to keep their wage subsidy money and could not pay dividends to their shareholders and bonuses to their CEOs based on profits if they were receiving money under the Canada emergency wage subsidy.

Industry committee  The House is expected to begin consideration of the bill at third reading on May 10. Why is the passage of this bill important to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business?

Industry committee  Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll continue to address my questions to Ms. Jones from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. You said something particularly noteworthy if not shocking: the cost of the administrative burden is inversely proportional to the size of the business. Obviously, the smaller the business, the higher the cost per employee.

Industry committee  We could then ask him questions about his desire for more pipelines. That could be really useful. I'll now turn to Ms. Jones from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. First, thank you for your presentation. It's obviously very valuable to have access to statistics on the impact of businesses, particularly independent businesses and small businesses.

Industry committee  Large corporate entities have no problem with red tape, because they can hire lawyers, lobbyists and other powerful insiders to influence government to write the rules to shut out competition and keep themselves on top, to protect the incumbent by keeping down the challengers. Ms. Jones, you said in your testimony that, according to Canadian Federation of Independent Business surveys, the heavy red tape burden falls disproportionately on the smallest firms. Do you have more detail on that finding?

Industry committee  It makes it advantageous to be large and to be able to afford lawyers, consultants and lobbyists and to have connections to people in power. As Ms. Jones, from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, points out, small businesses—

Industry committee  That establishes our ranking and how long it takes to get a permit and it establishes the ranking for the whole country. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business has done some of its own research. You can see some of that in the report I have cited in the presentation. I'll run through a couple of stats to help you understand the challenge from that perspective.

Industry committee  We have Yelena Larkin, associate professor of finance from York University. We have David Vaillancourt, partner, Affleck Greene McMurtry. From the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, we have Laura Jones, executive vice-president and chief strategic officer. From C.D. Howe Institute, we have Mr. Benjamin Dachis, director of public affairs. From the National Coalition of Chiefs, we have Dale Swampy, president.

Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2020  There is a serious need for additional support for small and medium-sized businesses. According to the research done by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, 180,000 companies are on the verge of closing their doors forever. Small and medium-sized businesses are the engine of our economy and hire far more private sector employees than big businesses do.

Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2020  When the Liberals wanted to bring in wage subsidies to help businesses, they suggested 10%. It was the NDP and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business that said we need 75% subsidies, and the wage subsidy program was born. Programs to support seniors, students and people with disabilities were all forced on the government by the NDP.

Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2020  They are asking for a plan to reopen our economy and to get Canadians back to work, and to support small businesses as they struggle to get back on their feet. Members should know that the Canadian Federation of Independent Business has made it very clear that there are some 240,000 small businesses that could very well be permanently shut down by the end of this COVID pandemic. We know that the million-plus small businesses in our country are the great job creators.

Business of Supply  What does he have to say to Dan Kelly and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business?

Finance committee  Thank you very much. Mr. Murphy, we heard—I think it was two weeks ago—from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. Dan Kelly presented here and brought forth a really startling figure: In Canada, the average small business has taken on 170,000 dollars' worth of debt in the pandemic.