Industry committee  Again, we're trying to make recommendations about what we could do that might move the needle from where we are now, where we're not getting nearly enough investment, to what we could do differently. One suggestion is to make ourselves.... We have to send a signal that we're open for business and that we want this investment.

Industry committee  To go back to the point you made first, I just want to say very clearly that carbon pricing is but one cost of production. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the approach Canada is taking, but we have to remember that it's one more cost at a time when competitors aren't putting that cost in.

Industry committee  I'm not sure it's for this committee, but certainly we made very healthy interventions into Mr. Emerson's report last year on the Canada Transportation Act, and we even met, as recently as last week, with Minister Garneau. We have a simple message: when shippers have access to more than one rail carrier, they pay significantly less per mile shipped than when they are captive to a single railway.

Industry committee  Roughly 75% of what we ship—I can get the exact number—goes by rail. Again, those who have access to competitive rail service do much better than those who do not.

Industry committee  It's very discouraging.

Industry committee  The most discouraging piece is that we export excess power into neighbouring U.S. jurisdictions, and they use that to lure manufacturing out of Ontario into those jurisdictions.

Industry committee  No, it's far too high, and the most—

Industry committee  We have done it.

Industry committee  Absolutely.

Industry committee  To be honest, I haven't thought of rural Canada separately from the broader set of recommendations that we have for the industry. We think that what we've recommended will make sense anywhere. Take Prince George, for example; why do we have three facilities there? They largely serve the wood products and forest products industry.

Industry committee  First of all, if you have a co-product that you can use to generate your own electricity or meet your own energy requirements, that's great. In the chlorine/chlor-alkali chemistry business, a by-product is hydrogen, and for many years that was vented to the atmosphere. It causes no environmental harm and it's a very abundant element in the earth's atmosphere, but with the push on for energy efficiency and other related activities, that hydrogen is all captured now and consumed on the sites to give them their own heat and power.

Industry committee  Well, we don't. Not only that, but our industry consumes a lot of hydrogen. Those who produce hydrogen can give it to somebody else who is going to use it as feedstock, and that's great. There are other facilities—hydrogen peroxide facilities, for instance—that use a large quantity of hydrogen, and it has to be purpose-made.

Industry committee  That's Ontario, not the federal government.

Industry committee  Yes.

Industry committee  We believe so, from our perspective, and we've said so to committee.