Government Operations committee  When I talked about circumstances, I think each department, each deputy head, has a responsibility to examine the hiring practices within their organization and to measure representation. Even though we have good representation numbers across the public service, that does not mean that in some organizations there may not be under-representation—

Government Operations committee  All I was saying was that the methodology could be applicable for some of those departments that may want to increase representation or that maybe suspect that there is unconscious bias in their staffing decisions. We're just prepared to share the methodology. We're not going to dictate to people to use it or not.

Government Operations committee  I don't think we can conclude that the tools we have, the approaches we have, are sufficient. We're constantly testing new approaches, seeing what works and what doesn't work. We've also been in consultation with the employee groups that represent visible minorities, indigenous people, and persons with disabilities, and they have a number of recommendations that they've directed at us in terms of how our systems or processes can be further improved.

Government Operations committee  Under the Public Service Employment Act, absolutely that is what we have to pursue—bias-free selection processes according to merit, non-partisan principles, and all of the principles associated with the act. That is what our mandate is. Are we there? Do we do it on a consistent basis across the system, which is talking about 200,000 employees across more than 80 organizations?

Government Operations committee  Yes. It will take about a year after we complete the design. Probably in late spring of next year we'll be able to report on the findings.

Government Operations committee  We acknowledged the limitations. Our methodology was reviewed by three outside experts, and the results were also reviewed. They confirmed that these are the limitations. However, in our study, we also addressed some of the limitations of other projects previously. I mentioned, for example, using real processes, real candidates, real applications, rather than fictitious ones, in some cases, where it was just a paper exercise.

Government Operations committee  The Employment Equity Act provides a certain number of tools that managers can apply to the hiring process when they're trying to, as you say, effect positive change. There are some departments, and some parts of departments, that are struggling with representation, including of women.

Government Operations committee  Again, this is one initiative among a number that we have undertaken—I listed them earlier—to ensure that our recruitment system is bias-free. I have to be able to give that assurance to Parliament that our systems are bias-free. The way we can do that is through experimentation and testing to make sure there are no biases.

Government Operations committee  This will be an audit that we will conduct at the Public Service Commission, so it's not the same as a research study. The audit will take a look at samples of staffing actions across the public service.

Government Operations committee  We're designing the methodology right now; this process will probably take some time. It will probably be at some point next year, Stan?

Government Operations committee  I have to admit that it predates my arrival at the Public Service Commission. This was a decision that was made about a year ago to take a look at whether name-blinding could be applied in our jurisdiction. It was based on studies that have been conducted in other countries. Carl, I know you were part of the process from the start.

Government Operations committee  Yes. Again, I think we have to go beyond some of those statistics and take a look at where there are some gaps and some differences. For example, I'm concerned when I look at our recruitment campaigns that we're getting fewer indigenous people applying to our programs and fewer persons with disability.

Government Operations committee  Yes.

Government Operations committee  The methodology has its limitations. Our main focus was on visible minorities. We didn't take gender equity into account. In Canada, the process is more complicated, because it's actually very hard to anonymize or defeminize a resume or job application in French. It's easier in English, but it's very hard in French.

Government Operations committee  Yes, that's exactly it. One of the problems is the constant use of “il” and “elle”—or “he” and “she” in English. That's why we didn't take into account gender equity. Instead, we really focused on visible minorities.