Public Accounts committee  Anything is possible, we just need to look into it. I thank you for the suggestion. I don't know if it's included in the follow-up exercise we'll be doing soon, but I'll make a note of it and get back to you on it at a future meeting.

Public Accounts committee  In the audit, we did we sample audits of the safety management systems in the railway companies and saw that Transport Canada had increased the number of audits they were doing of those safety management systems. But, again, it's very similar to their own activities. They were not able to demonstrate that those safety management systems actually helped improve safety.

Public Accounts committee  I think that's why we've made the point that when you invest this amount of time and effort and individuals, you should be able to measure that effectiveness for a few reasons. One is to see the benefit of all that work, but also to know whether or not you're doing the right things you should be doing.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you. I think it's a bit of a question of policy. It was written into the legislation that companies should develop these. What we looked at is whether or not Transport Canada was doing the proper oversight of that. I do believe that it is Transport Canada, as the expert in transportation, that should decide whether or not those mechanisms are the most effective.

Public Accounts committee  I'm going to ask Nick Swales, who is a principal, if he can provide that extra detail for you. I don't know that off the top of my head, so I'm going to see if Nick can add that.

Public Accounts committee  I guess I would say that yes, I agree, that's part of the issue we're seeing. Whether that comes from solutions through the funding formula or not, having that expertise in those communities is needed.

Public Accounts committee  Are you talking about time frames with respect to how long it takes to build a ship?

Public Accounts committee  I think I might let Nick tackle that one. I just want to say that I think the department and the shipyards agreed that their timelines were not very realistic, and they believe they have established more realistic timelines with some of the actions they took during our audit. Nick, I don't know if you can answer the member's question.

Public Accounts committee  I don't know if I have the answer, but I can tell you that during the audit, we found that the government had taken steps to try to get the strategy back on track. One of those steps was the addition of a third shipyard, Davie Shipbuilding, to build ships. The government found that this was a way to improve the strategy and get it back on track.

Public Accounts committee  That is an odd question. Transport Canada does the safety oversight, but they also work with the railroads. It is the railroads, as well as the transportation companies, that use the safety systems. The deputy minister of any department is responsible for all actions taken by his or her department.

Public Accounts committee  One of the new things we're going to be doing soon is following up on several audits, exactly as you mention. This is not to produce a lengthy report, but rather to do more follow-up on recommendations. Our intent is to include the reports we just filed. Sometimes a topic is so important that it needs to be looked at again.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you for the question about the shipbuilding strategy. It's important to start off, I think, with the three objectives of this strategy: It was to renew the fleet in a timely and affordable way, to create and support our marine sector and also to generate economic benefits for the country.

Public Accounts committee  I don't believe that we have that dollar amount. A lot of that would be forward looking projections. Perhaps the Parliamentary Budget Officer can assist with that. Let's turn to Glenn and see what he can add to the dialogue.

Public Accounts committee  An act was put in place, but not the underlying regulations.

Public Accounts committee  I thank you for the question. I also want to mention that the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development tabled a report just before mine on the transportation of dangerous goods. He raised the same concerns that we are raising in this report. That is why Transport Canada officials need to ensure that the actions they take are effective.