National Defence committee  I think you even actually asserted just a moment ago that there are many other types of complaints, so I'm not going to get into speculating on what they could have been, but there are many different types of complaints that can come forward.

National Defence committee  No. Actually, I would remind you that I didn't learn about the.... I knew nothing about the complaint. I knew there was something, that the ombudsperson said they had a complaint that they apparently couldn't work on and they raised with the minister—

National Defence committee  When we found out about the unusual circumstance that the minister found himself in, we immediately took it seriously. We immediately took action with the appropriate people who should follow up on it.

National Defence committee  There are a few things there, but I'd like to start with your skepticism, which I understand given recent news reports, as you said. I think it has been hard for everyone involved to separate what information we have been given in the last number of months from the information we did not have in March 2018.

National Defence committee  We have, of course, discussed the news stories that have come out in the last couple of months. We have been particularly focused on what they mean in terms of the action that needs to be taken to protect survivors. Thankfully, some of them—and I'm sure, unfortunately, there are many more—are coming out, speaking publicly and sharing their stories so that we will better know how to act so that we can support them.

National Defence committee  It's a fair question. I can only tell you what I know. I asked that question because I was getting no information, because it seemed that nothing further could be done and because I was very concerned and was taking this very seriously. I was then given this assurance. That's all I can speak to.

National Defence committee  I would like to remind you that the only reason you or any of us know what was in the envelope is the public reporting in March 2021. In March 2018, I was aware, I believe from the original brief that I received on this, that there was an envelope. I had absolutely no idea what was in it, nor did anybody else, and this was one of the reasons we were determined to take the appropriate steps to follow up.

National Defence committee  Yes, that's right.

National Defence committee  Thank you for the question. Because I want to make sure I answer it and explain it well, I will do it in English. It's pretty commonplace, as I said in answer to an earlier question, for a chief of staff to call in seeking advice. I don't recall whether the chief of staff and I spoke directly in the first instance or she spoke to my office and a voice mail was left and it was passed on in that manner to Mr.

National Defence committee  If you mean how he made the decision on whether to go to the deputy secretary to the cabinet, first of all, Mr. Marques was a very senior staffer and, as he testified, was keeping me updated and apprised of the next steps he was taking. After he informed me about what was going on, he spoke to the clerk, which the clerk has also testified to, and the clerk brought in the deputy secretary to the cabinet to get involved.

National Defence committee  I can speak to what I know, and I can also look at the testimony of the previous witnesses, as I have. I believe that the clerk, Ms. Sherman, Mr. Marques and Minister Sajjan have all spoken to the fact that they didn't know the nature of the complaint. As Elder Marques said, because we didn't know what it was about, there was a possibility that it could be a sexual allegation.

National Defence committee  Yes. Mr. Elder Marques was working with the clerk, as I understand it, and the clerk put him in touch with the deputy secretary to the cabinet. He said she was best placed to help do the follow-up on this. Actually, she took the lead on the follow-up because he determined and she determined that it was appropriate for the Privy Council Office to be doing this follow-up.

National Defence committee  Yes, and I think that can be seen through the documents that have been made public as well. The deputy secretary to the cabinet followed up and redirected. She suggested to the minister that the ombudsperson be redirected to her, and as she has testified before committee, she then engaged with the ombudsperson's office from that point.

National Defence committee  Yes, other than what I mentioned in my opening statement. Elder was giving me updates and saying there was nothing further they could find out and therefore nothing they could advise or act on any further. I talked to Elder about.... We both discussed if there was any way we could get assurance that this was not a safety issue, and then we got that confirmation.

National Defence committee  That is completely correct. In the last number of months, there were different articles, and a lot of people were insinuating which one was or wasn't about the complaint that had come forward. It wasn't until a March news story specifically reported on it that we knew it was the complaint the ombudsperson was referring to.