Taxation  Mr. Speaker, as I have just said, the Minister of Finance is open to discussing these things. However, as he has more than once said, the conclusion that there is fiscal imbalance is not at all correct for the first four or five years because the federal surplus will be less than the contingency fund.

Taxation  Mr. Speaker, as the minister said yesterday, the government is always open to talking with the minister's counterparts about matters of interest to them. As for the fiscal imbalance, it is not just that these projections over 20 years are hypothetical; it is worse than that. Projections over two years are difficult, those over five are almost impossible, and those over 20 are ridiculous.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, there is less than a year between now and the fall so there is a possibility of adjustment in less than a year. I would defend the $12 fixed amount on grounds of equity principally because the cost of this additional security is not a function of the price of the ticket and it is not a function of the length of the flight.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, I believe 89 airports have security processes and they are the ones subject to this charge. If one is flying from a small airport in the north to another small airport in the north which do not have those security services, then one does not pay the charge. The list of airports affected is a dynamic, ongoing list.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, as I have said, the costs are not wholly borne by users. They pay $2.2 billion of the total of $7.7 billion, or 30% of the costs. It seems to us reasonable that users pay 30% of the costs; this is not the entire cost.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, we are not overtaxing given the information we have at this time. The point the hon. member and the newspaper article fail to grasp is that the number of emplanements is not the same as the number of $12 charges. Some people flying from A to B to C will pay only $12 but when they fly from A to B and then from B to C that will be two emplanements.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, with respect to the hon. member's first question, I believe the budget announced $7.7 billion for security over a period of five years. The second question was of a technical nature regarding the woodlot owners. I do not have all the answers to that question but I will get back to the member as soon as I can.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, the government is not in the business of double paying. Apart from that I did not hear any question in the hon. member's statement.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, I am very comfortable with the role the Prime Minister's Office has been playing in the matter. The government takes seriously the recommendations of committees, but committee recommendations are not necessarily the final word because ultimately in a democracy a government has a responsibility to govern.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, it is the Liberal government that is forward looking. It is the Canadian Alliance that is mired in the old fashioned ideas of the 1950s and 1850s. The hon. member displays his usual lamentable ignorance about the facts of the matter. The essential need is to establish the new Canadian Air Transport Security Authority.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, the great bulk of the additional security costs the government has implemented come out of the general revenue. The measures announced in the budget to improve security would total $7.7 billion. All that would come out of the general revenue except for the $2.2 billion, about 30% of the total, that would be applied to air travel.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, 20-20 hindsight is wonderful. However I will take the hon. member back to September 11. There was a sense of crisis, a sense that Canadians demanded action to improve security at airports. It was not a time for more studies. It was a time for resolute action and leadership to provide security to air travellers and restore the confidence of Canadians in air travel.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, we want to proceed quickly, because we experienced a real crisis on September 11. The airline industry suffered huge losses. It is absolutely critical to have the confidence of those who fly. Long delays mean that the new agency cannot begin to improve security. The more the legislation is delayed, the more the implementation of these security measures is delayed.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, I would think that the fundamental principle of democracy is that the House of Commons makes the ultimate decision, not the committees, and that is indeed what is happening in this case. That having been said, I did promise to the hon. member that I would convey his desire for labour representatives to the Minister of Transport, which I have done.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001  Mr. Speaker, there are two answers to the question. First, the $12 charge has the virtue of simplicity. Second, it is fair in the sense that the cost of the additional security is not a function of the cost of the ticket. It is not a function of the distance travelled. The security cost to fly from Victoria to Vancouver is the same as the security cost to fly from Victoria to St.