National Defence committee  Yes. I think it would also be fair to say that many more steps will still need to be taken. Many steps were taken in the first four years of this government and following the launch of Operation Honour. However, as I said in my opening statement, and as you've heard from the Prime Minister, the minister and I'm sure from members of this committee and others who have testified, obviously there is so much more to do.

National Defence committee  No, I haven't. I understand that you were discussing an invitation. I would have accepted to come earlier this week, but I didn't want this connected in any way, shape or form to the opposition day motion that was going on earlier this week. I was glad to accept this invitation following the vote on Wednesday.

National Defence committee  Yes, to the extent that they went to the Privy Council Office, as I understand through testimony before this committee, which is how I have learned about these things as well. I believe in that case they went through the national security adviser, because he was chairing the selection process for the next chief of the defence staff.

National Defence committee  I'll remind you what my role was in this. I was informed of what was happening and I wanted to ensure the appropriate steps were being followed immediately and that it was being taken seriously, because we didn't know what it was, and that the appropriate people were following up.

National Defence committee  Actually, the first concern was about the complainant. That's why it was really important for us to think about who the appropriate person was to do the follow-up in this unusual circumstance. The appropriate people were not politicians and political staff, but the Privy Council Office, which handles—as I believe Ms.

National Defence committee  I want to remind you about what we knew and didn't know in March 2018. As I said in my opening statement, all we knew was that the ombudsperson, at the end of the meeting, pulled the minister aside and suggested that he had a complaint and an envelope, as I understand it. The minister immediately sought advice and wanted to ensure the appropriate next steps were followed, and that's what we did.

National Defence committee  Well, you seemed confused about it, so I wanted to clarify it.

National Defence committee  No. I want to remind you what we knew in March 2018. We knew of the existence of a complaint from the ombudsperson that he passed on—

National Defence committee  Yes. It is very normal for the chiefs of staff of all ministers to call—whether it's me, my office or any member of the broader senior staff—about any number of issues to seek advice, think about and coordinate, depending on what the issue is, what next steps could be. We each have different experiences and we try to share them with one another.

National Defence committee  I'm not sure how that is relevant here, but the clerk does—

National Defence committee  I'll start by pointing out that in the testimony of Mr. Marques, Mr. Wernick and Ms. Sherman, they all spoke about not knowing the nature of the complaint. They had no details of the complaint. They did not know what the complaint was. I'll just remind you of what I did and what I am aware of.

National Defence committee  What happened was that the minister sought advice on how to deal with this unusual circumstance through his office to my office, and I sought the appropriate advice and the appropriate person to give him that advice. In this case, it was the Privy Council Office.

National Defence committee  No. I'll tell you what happened in early March 2018. The minister, through his office, contacted my office to seek advice, and we sought the appropriate advice from the Privy Council Office. The Clerk of the Privy Council at the time said that the appropriate people to follow up with were in his office.

National Defence committee  It's none of those. The minister contacted our office to get advice on how to deal with this unusual circumstance that he'd been faced with. He contacted us immediately. We immediately followed up. We immediately took it seriously because of the potential of what it could be. We didn't know what it was, so we took the appropriate steps to figure out who the appropriate people were to talk to and follow up—

National Defence committee  Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, members of the committee. Thank you for your important work looking into how to address sexual misconduct in the Canadian Armed Forces. I understand that you invited me to this meeting to tell you what I know about the information that the ombudsman raised with Minister Sajjan about former Chief of the Defence Staff Jonathan Vance.