Public Accounts committee  Well, that's what I'm getting to. We are an organization of 26,000 people. From time to time we have large projects in headquarters and we second people from the regions. While they're here, we would pay their living expenses. Now, whether or not they would pay for an apartment....

Public Accounts committee  I, Paul Gauvin, swear that the evidence I shall give on this examination shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

Public Accounts committee  First of all, this was a very difficult project, and it had to be done within certain timeframes. I agree with that. Second, we did have some problems in contracting, and we stopped it. We took the contracting authority away. Our people would not process these contracts and break the rules.

Public Accounts committee  Yes, he did. Now, I think Mr. Crupi explained that they put a process in place whereby they had five or six signatures, and eventually Mr. Ewanovich made the decision as to whether or not to go with the contracts. I also want to say that PWGSC also knew us well as a client, and we had a job to do, and there were fairly complex requirements.

Public Accounts committee  No, it isn't.

Public Accounts committee  I'm only trying to answer the question, sir.

Public Accounts committee  No, I'm just trying to finalize the question. We honestly felt that PWGSC meant we were totally protected because of their experience and expertise in government contracting. They are the experts; they do procurement on behalf of all departments. As we heard today, in going to CAC there were issues, but I don't think anybody knew those issues were there.

Public Accounts committee  First of all, my office is quite close to Jim Ewanovich's. In the RCMP, we have an executive wing, and all our offices are very close to one another. In terms of the pension advisory board, yes, I was a member, but there were about 10 other members there. There were two staff relations officers.

Public Accounts committee  No, I wasn't. There wasn't a pension subcommittee. Anyway, there were lots of people there. I would like to recommend to the committee--and I know you're very busy and you're talking to a lot of people--that you invite three staff relations officers who are the very brightest, and excellent, who pushed this outsourcing.

Public Accounts committee  Again, as I mentioned, that wasn't my responsibility; this was an HR issue. I don't deal with HR issues. I'm sorry.

Public Accounts committee  No, I'm not passing the buck. I deal with HR issues for the organization that I have, and I have about 400 people. That's my responsibility.

Public Accounts committee  That's the way it works in the government--

Public Accounts committee  --and in any other organization of that size.

Public Accounts committee  The Auditor General has said there was nothing wrong with the controls. What was wrong is that people went around the controls.

Public Accounts committee  What we advised about was that we were taking his contracting authority away. But the answer to whether or not we should fire him is, no, it wasn't my decision.