Information & Ethics committee  I would say a public debate is under way as we speak given what this committee is studying. You are playing an important role by asking these questions and studying the issue. Your recommendations will fuel that debate. Raising privacy concerns and discussing the interplay with new and evolving technologies is important, so that Canadians are aware of what's going on.

Information & Ethics committee  One of the things I said earlier is that more needs to be done. Young people need to be educated, whether at the high school, CEGEP or university level. We live in an increasingly digital world, so these are issues we need to talk about more with young people.

Information & Ethics committee  Absolutely.

Information & Ethics committee  I mean both with respect to provincial counterparts and departments and with respect to the private sector. I'm going to continue that reach out to see how we can help that process to make sure the information flows.

Information & Ethics committee  Certainly. We will put in place the mechanisms necessary so that if we receive information that is confidential, secret or top secret, obviously we want to protect that. Again, that goes to the point that privacy is not an obstacle to the public interest. It's not in the public interest to jeopardize the confidentiality of investigative information, so looking at a privacy impact assessment has to be done in this context.

Information & Ethics committee  This is exactly the type of information that needs to be looked at in a PIA, with my office being consulted on it. This is the type of thing that would certainly go towards saying, okay, there are mechanisms here for approvals, so is it being used in specific, tailored cases appropriate to the severity of what's at stake and so on and so forth?

Information & Ethics committee  With regard to being consulted on a PIA, I'm not suggesting that every time an ODIT is being sought in a given investigation we would be consulted—not at all. What I'm suggesting is that a PIA should be done on the program and on those tools, and that we be consulted with respect to this program and those tools generally, so that we can provide input as to whether the process as a whole is sufficient to protect privacy—not with respect to specific cases.

Information & Ethics committee  I don't know. You would have to ask them that.

Information & Ethics committee  What I know is that we will receive a briefing at the end of August on these tools. I don't know if the PIA will be concluded at that time. That would be something to ask them, but I know that we will be receiving a briefing at the end of August.

Information & Ethics committee  My concern is that the PIA in this instance was not brought to my office's attention before the tools were used. That's my focus—looking at how this program has been looked at from a privacy standpoint and having the ability to provide our input. I don't have concerns that I can share right now in terms of the specifics because I have not seen the specific information.

Information & Ethics committee  Absolutely. This is something that I will be looking at in terms of what we, as the OPC, can do to help this process. The first position I'm stating is that the recommendation should be a legal obligation and it should be on the departments to do so, and to proactively do so. I've been having good exchanges and meetings with my counterparts.

Information & Ethics committee  That is exactly the type of question we would be asking in terms of looking at a PIA. This is the type of approach that I would call a culture of privacy. What is the impact on the privacy of Canadians? Are you going further than you need to? You may well need to do it to investigate one individual, but are you using a tool that's going to be gathering information about other individuals?

Information & Ethics committee  Well, this is why we need this information. This is the question that we will be asking when we receive the briefing on the information, to see whether, given this new technology, the safeguards are sufficient, or whether we have to make recommendations to make it safer from a privacy standpoint.

Information & Ethics committee  We did not raise concerns with respect to the specific use of tools in this instance because we have not been consulted on them yet. We will be consulted on this at the end of August. I believe the reference is made to some of the other investigations that took place by my office of the cell site simulators and the Clearview AI, which was the use of facial recognition images of citizens.

Information & Ethics committee  Well, this is what we will want to answer once we have the specific information about the tools and their capacities. Certainly, it does provide protection and it does provide safeguards. Hopefully, it provides sufficient safeguards. This is what we'll be looking at when we have the briefing on the tools themselves at the end of August.