Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Thank you for raising the point about your mother. She has done remarkable work and has been an inspiration to many of us over the years. We have a commemorative pin that we wanted to give her this year, so I think I'll talk to you afterwards about how to get in touch directly.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  There was some work done. It depends, often, on what's being looked at. At one point at the Prison for Women, I know that the Correctional Service of Canada looked at all diagnoses that would fit within the DSM-IV, for instance, or DSM-III, I think it was at the time. It was determined that depending on what definition you used, anywhere up to 90% to 99% of the women could have been identified as having mental health issues.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  In terms of consultation, I'm very pleased the committee is doing this work, because it seems to coincide with the combination of this committee focusing on this area and the correctional investigator issuing his report. Corrections is currently doing a consultation on the management protocol.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Two pieces of information might be useful. We have a syllabus. I co-teach a course at the University of Ottawa law school on defending battered women on trial. There is a whole section on aboriginal women that talks about exactly that, the lack of understanding by the police, by prosecutors, by defence counsel, by judges, by the prison system.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I'm happy to provide that information. There's a paper by--

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I think there are initiatives commenced from time to time that are very good. The question you need to ask and the question I always ask when I go into the prisons--I go to all the federal penitentiaries where women are serving sentences on a regular basis, and we also have regional advocates going in regularly--is this: how often are those programs or services offered, to how many women, and for what length of time?

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I would say it isn't my experience that people are unreceptive to opportunities to engage in programs or services or interaction. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It's usually that the programs and services are not set up to engage the individuals. And it's not just aboriginal people, but it's people with mental health issues as well.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Thank you very much for the question. If I wasn't clear.... We certainly wouldn't say that the system staying the same and just having a few accountability measures would change it. Absolutely not. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. There are a number of recommendations we have made.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Okay. I would say we need to be looking at alternatives before people end up in prison, and those involve shoring up the community. We need to be looking at greater opportunities for release from prison, and we need to be fundamentally changing some of those systemic barriers like the classification systems and the manner in which people are examined and identified when they come into the system.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Chair, for inviting us here. I bring regrets from my president, Lucie Joncas, who was planning to attend with me but is tied up in some other matter. Given that it's the first time in a while that we've been before this committee I thought I would outline a bit about the organization and then comment on some of the issues pertaining particularly to aboriginal women prisoners.

Public Safety committee  Thank you.

Public Safety committee  Corrections would indicate that most of them have been, and I would say that in part, many of them have been. There's a deputy commissioner for women, but with none of the other recommendations that went with that position. It depends on which recommendation you're talking about.

Public Safety committee  No, there are not. In fact, you may want to consult with another American, Jerome Miller, who was head of juvenile corrections in Massachusetts in the seventies and led a--

Public Safety committee  Jerome Miller talked about when they were decarcerating young people in juvenile corrections, one of the issues they didn't do sufficiently was transfer those resources into the community. So there are individuals who have had experience doing this and have learned from those experiences, and I would encourage we look at that.

Public Safety committee  In our experience with the individuals we're working with, and the regional advocates who go on our behalf into the institutions, the more desperate people feel and the less hope they have, the more likely it is.... Usually they'll first act out against themselves. Then they may start acting out against others—staff, other prisoners—and ultimately may commit suicide.