Procedure and House Affairs committee  While the government doesn't seem to be affected by the first nations, by the opposition, by the Chief Electoral Officer, the commissioner of elections, or an other expert who has commented on this, they've really done it now, because they've riled up Sheila Fraser. If there's one person in this country who Canadians count on to tell them the truth, it's Sheila Fraser. What did Madam Fraser say, as quoted in the media: There's such a fuss being made about lunch money and what (politicians) spend for travel and (yet) the political parties get more than $30 million (in rebates and tax credits) and there's no real accounting back....

Business of Supply  I would contradict the member for Vancouver Island North, who said something a few minutes ago about the Auditor General supporting the idea that the Auditor General not have jurisdiction over the expenses of MPs. I would like to be clear that is completely false. I will quote Sheila Fraser, the former Auditor General, who said, “I think Parliament's auditor should audit Parliament”. The current Auditor General came before the procedure and House affairs committee and also reiterated what Sheila Fraser said, that the Auditor General needs to have jurisdiction over the expenses of MPs.

Employment  Mr. Speaker, five years ago, Sheila Fraser warned the government about the integrity of the temporary foreign worker program and the poor quality of its labour market opinions. Instead, it ignored her and has instead massively increased the intake of the program, even in places like London, Sarnia, Windsor, and Hamilton, that have been hit by job losses.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Chair, we had that discussion at committee. If you recall, I had sent a letter trying to determine that. We determined that Sheila Fraser—

Procedure and House Affairs committee  This clause does that. I also hearken back to the testimony by former auditor general Sheila Fraser who said that she wasn't necessarily opposed to the removal of the Commissioner of Canada Elections from under the auspices of Elections Canada and moving over to the DPP's office, but she felt that there had to be assurances that there would be ample and free communication between the Chief Electoral Officer and the Commissioner of Canada Elections.

Business of Supply  We saw it with the so-called minister of undemocratic reform, saying that the problem was the head of Elections Canada. Sheila Fraser is the problem. The problem is the NDP, not his bill. His bill was perfect. The Conservatives' first instinct is to blame others, rather than take any kind of responsibility for a program that they allowed to explode.

Business of Supply  The difficulty is that there has been no sign whatsoever of the Conservatives listening to any of the witnesses so far, particularly people like Marc Mayrand, of Elections Canada; the Commissioner of Canada Elections; the commissioners of elections for provincial governments; the former auditor general, Sheila Fraser; and even an expert witness from Britain. We have become international now. So many witnesses are attacking this bill. We have a situation where the Commissioner of Canada Elections is trying to investigate alleged fraudulent actions in the last election by Conservative members of Parliament.

Business of Supply  It is because the government has no credible source outside of the Conservative Party that supports the legislation we are debating. The Chief Electoral Officer; the previous chief electoral officer; Sheila Fraser; the head of the commission, Mr. Côté; and 100-plus professors from coast to coast to coast in Canada do not support this legislation. Not one political party supports this legislation.

Business of Supply  Not only do the Conservatives want to change the rules; the Minister of State for Democratic Reform also personally attacked the Chief Electoral Officer and was even publicly reprimanded by former auditor general Sheila Fraser for doing that. To put it in simpler language and draw a picture, the Conservatives want to change the rules of the game to favour themselves, and if the referee protests, they punch out the referee.

Democratic Reform  Mr. Speaker, the minister still has not responded to Sheila Fraser. I am giving him the opportunity to do so. What does he have to say about the statement she made in response to the minister's blatant attack on the Chief Electoral Officer? Ms. Fraser said: This does not do anyone any favours.

Democratic Reform  It was drafted without consultation with Elections Canada, experts, or opposition members. Sheila Fraser calls it an “attack on…democracy”. If the Prime Minister will not listen to outside counsel, will he at least allow Conservative MPs to listen to their constituents and vote their conscience?

Democratic Reform  The Minister of State for Democratic Reform then engaged in a vicious, partisan attack against him, which former auditor general Sheila Fraser called “totally inappropriate”. The Prime Minister should allow his members to speak without fear of being discredited. Will he allow them to vote freely on this bill?

Democratic Reform  Now he sends his Minister of State for Democratic Reform to launch a blistering personal attack on Mr. Mayrand for having the temerity to do his job. In the words of Sheila Fraser, “…if this was to continue, we will all pay because no one will have faith in government, in chief electoral officers, or our democratic system”. Our laws should defend voters and show respect for our officers of Parliament.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  No, but my understanding of issues like the Privacy Act and others is that there has to be an explicit approval given to be able to share information. You might want to consult the Privacy Commissioner on that, but I think there has to be a specific provision in order to do that.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I think that moving the commissioner is feasible. I mean I think that he will be able to carry out investigations. There is the question of exchange of information and the efficiency, and the commissioner raised other issues, but obviously I think that exchange of information and the cooperation between the two agencies is the crux of the difficulties.