Finance committee  Sure. In terms of the white-label ABMs, they tend to be in places such as airports, convenience stores, and so on. The owners of those properties are charging rent for the space, so that's part of the cost. There is a cost to accessing the network, to maintaining the ABM, to the security around the ABM, and to stocking it with cash.

Finance committee  It's a competitive network and priced accordingly, because there are different costs associated with establishing a white-label machine somewhere such as a convenience store, an airport, or a sporting arena. The costs are higher, and it's a competitive market. As I said earlier, consumers have choices in terms of how they want to access their money.

Finance committee  Thanks very much. In Canada we have a very competitive system. We have a number of different financial institutions competing for the business of their clients, and one of the ways they do that is to invest in networks like ABM networks to serve their own clients. We also do have a white label industry in Canada, white-label ABMs owned by institutions other than the banks.

Finance committee  I would simply reinforce that under the current debit card code of conduct, if there is fraud or unauthorized use of a debit card, the consumer is not liable for any of that loss at all. We're certainly looking forward to participating in the discussions about the electronic code as well, and on this issue also.

Finance committee  There are a number of different billers participating in this system where it is instantaneous. Under rule H6 of the Canadian Payments Association, the biller who participates will say yes, the day you pay is the day it's posted to your account. Absolutely. But not all billers in the country participate.

Finance committee  Thank you. Well, of course in an electronic age we're all used to having instant communication. At the push of a button, we can send an e-mail to one another. But in the payment system, we have a very sophisticated, safe, and secure system, and it requires a number of processes behind it.