International Trade committee  I apologize. I'm sorry.

International Trade committee  I'll limit my comments. I just want to pick up by highlighting the weaknesses of the enforcement provision in the Canada-Colombia labour side agreement. The particular weakness that I want to focus upon is the fact that, once again, enforcement is left up to the signatory states and the signatory bureaucracies that are assigned the task of enforcing the labour rights.

International Trade committee  Thank you very much. I hope you can hear me. My name is Mark Rowlinson. I'm counsel to United Steelworkers, but I'm also a member of the international labour rights committee of the Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers, on whose behalf I appear before you this afternoon. The Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers is an association of over 350 progressive lawyers who represent workers, trade unions, professionals in other associations in a wide range of legal matters across Canada.

International Trade committee  Let me answer quickly all three questions. First, in respect of the independence of those with whom the committee met, obviously I can't necessarily comment on that. But the reason why CALL is specifically urging this committee and the Government of Canada to only embark upon this free trade agreement after independent international human rights institutions have confirmed that Colombia is living up to its human rights commitments is precisely for this reason.

International Trade committee  I'd answer your question in two ways. First, I think when you're talking about a free trade agreement between a Canadian state and a Colombian state, the interests of the Canadian government in pursuing the trade agreement have a broader impact and a broader meaning than simply the effect it may or may not have on Canadian resource extraction companies in Colombia.

International Trade committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I will try to be brief. My name is Mark Rowlinson. I'm here on behalf of the Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers. We're grateful for the opportunity to make these submissions on the ongoing negotiations aimed at establishing a free trade agreement between Canada and Colombia.

International Trade committee  I'll give a very short answer. Let me give you two concrete examples. I was involved in a complaint filed in Canada regarding the violent--that is, baseball bats and weapons--repression attack on a union organizing campaign in Mexico. Those kinds of situations, or situations that occur all the time--in Colombia, most notably--where trade unionists are murdered when they try to form a union, those sorts of basic, fundamental attacks on freedom of association are exactly the kinds of fundamental abuses that we think this kind of trade regime ought to be able to attack.

International Trade committee  Very quickly, collective bargaining negotiations are a private process. As a general proposition, they normally take place in private, although the parties can agree to release proposals at any time. It depends on each negotiation.

International Trade committee  Yes, if all parties agree to it.

International Trade committee  Quickly with respect to your question about the race to the bottom and the European model, one thing that's interesting and terrific in some respects about the EU model is that they have managed to avoid the problem of capital flight by gradually developing these sorts of intranational labour rights enforcement mechanisms.

International Trade committee  I have two comments on the labour negotiations issue. First, labour negotiations take place, I'm proud to say, in a fundamentally democratic environment. That is to say, as I said earlier, the proposals are prepared by the membership, as a general rule, they are negotiated by a committee, and then they are brought back to the membership for ratification.

International Trade committee  I have one other point, to carry on with the analogy of collective bargaining. In most Canadian jurisdictions, any collective agreement that's reached has to be bindingly ratified by all the members once it has been negotiated, and we would certainly encourage that model with respect to this trade agreement.

International Trade committee  The notion of a living wage internationally, again, is a fairly well-established international norm. The International Labour Organization does work on these issues and indeed consults regularly with states about appropriate levels of minimum wage, the issue you raised. Obviously a minimum wage is going to depend upon the particular economy you're speaking about, but it's absolutely possible to both require countries to have a minimum wage and require that the minimum wage be enforced.

International Trade committee  Thank you very much for your question. I'm going to answer you in English because I'm more comfortable in that language. First, you referred to the utopian desire to have labour rights enforced on a transnational basis. I would suggest to you that it may seem utopian, and I would agree with you that in the short term we're not going to see that sort of rigorous transnational enforcement of labour law—as opposed to labour rights, to some extent—in the Americas, and there are a number of reasons for that.

International Trade committee  I think that's fair.