National Defence committee  Mr. Chairman, perhaps I might answer that in a slightly different way, because the lead time required, from R and D through to commercialization, and then the ability to compete on programs, is not an overnight phenomenon. My answer to you would be that through the opportunities Canadian industry is able to win on F-35, they will be developing expertise and access, as supply chain members, to other programs and to commercial opportunities, perhaps, that they may be able to spin off from the innovation and/or success they've had through their support of the F-35 program.

National Defence committee  That is what I'm suggesting, sir, yes.

National Defence committee  Our focus, as an organization, is in ensuring that when the government spends a dollar on defence, it is doing so to the maximum benefit of the military and optimal return on investment to Canadian workers. Our observation is that the issue around F-35 has focused less around jobs and economic opportunity and more around issues that are not relevant to that question.

National Defence committee  Sir, I'm reflecting because I'm trying to remember what we wrote in our report that we submitted to government back in April of this year. It includes early engagement. It includes R and D. It includes supply chain. It includes international marketing efforts. I guess the piece we have not seen yet is the sustainment piece.

National Defence committee  Sir, what we were trying to point out in our presentation to you this afternoon is the importance of identifying early on what industrial activity or industrial objectives the government has as it moves forward and spends a dollar on defence. We believe that time was spent early on in the F-35 debate within the Department of National Defence, within Industry Canada, perhaps even within the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, so there were articulated industrial objectives early on in that project.

National Defence committee  We haven't considered that as an organization, but I suggest to you that if you've got a plan and you're effective at executing your plan, then you should get the return you're looking for. I'm sure I'm not answering the question the way you would like me to answer it, but--

National Defence committee  If you flip that on its head and say by the nature of the way Canada has been investing in defence for the last 10 years, and it's working off a COTS and a MOTS model, where it's using IRBs, the question could ask how strategic has the return on investment been from those IRBs. For us, we're kind of stepping one step above the question that you're asking, sir, which is to say, let's have a plan; let's figure out what's important to the country and then let's execute that to achieve that outcome.

National Defence committee  In principle, the answer is yes. I would add, in support of what I've just said, that there are different countries who place higher or lower priority on individual aspects of their industrial base and who may take it upon themselves to encourage the prime contractors to look favourably at a supply base from their country.

National Defence committee  Well, my understanding is that the ability of Canada to participate is tied to our support of the program. Now there may be opportunities, but they would certainly not be first-tier, second-tier, or third-tier ones. I think the clear advantage for Canada, as a member of the partnership group, is to be pre-positioning Canadian industry, as it has been doing for a great many years now, to succeed not only at the concept phase through to development and production, but also right through the sustainment phase of this program.

National Defence committee  As I said in our opening, it's fair to say that the issue has become a subject of keen political interest. Our encouragement to the government is to do its level-headed best to share the opportunities that Canada has been able to win and to work aggressively to pursue other opportunities for Canadian industry, both at the production and the sustainment phases.

National Defence committee  I would suggest, sir, that Canadian industry has done as well as it has to date in part because of the collaborative approach it has taken with the government. The secret to long-term optimizing of taxpayers' return on investment is to see this practice carried forward, not just into the F-35 program but to any other defence procurement the Government of Canada has on its list of priorities.

National Defence committee  Thank you, sir, for your endorsement of a defence industrial strategy. Our view is that there needs to be an industrial strategy aligned to the Canada First defence strategy and to international market opportunities. Some of the characteristics of that strategy are as we've identified: articulation of Canadian capabilities that hold a strategic and/or economic value for the country; an investment in those capabilities through R and D support, both government and industry; support to marketing efforts to include Canadian industry into the supply chain of major contractors; and the promotion of Canadian capability through our defence attachés and Department of Foreign Affairs, so that we are not just looking for foreign solutions as we try to meet our military requirements, but we are promoting world-class Canadian capability abroad.

National Defence committee  Well, I can't comment on that, sir.

National Defence committee  I'm surprised, given the number of witnesses who have been before your committee, that this matter or those issues haven't been brought up. But we'd be happy to provide you with additional information on any one of these items, as you deem appropriate, either as an individual member or as a committee.

National Defence committee  Well, I didn't in my introductory remarks, sir—speaking through you, Chairman—comment on the cost at all. What I was trying to identify were areas where there is still acknowledged work to be done and opportunities to be exploited and capitalized on by Canadian industry. My exhortation is for the government to act aggressively and collaboratively with industry to optimize the opportunities that are on the table, both for Canadian industry at the production stage still and through the sustainment plan, once that sustainment plan has been developed and once Canada has identified its priorities.